The Syndicate

[Bry_Sinclair]

What is other people's thoughts on the Orion Syndicate?

In DS9, it seemed to be a criminal organisations (the Orion mafia as it were), that had a vast influence and was involved in just about everything. After all in all the times it was seen or mentioned, not a single Orion was present.

But in ENT it seems to be the name of their government/territory (as in the Andorian Empire, Vulcan High Command, etc), which to me doesn't sound right.

I prefer the DS9 version, as I don't envision the Orions have a very stable political system, with most people just out for themselves.

Also who was happy with the whole Orion women are the ones in charge idea? It flipped the general concensus on its head (that the women were basically little more than property of the males), but I never really bought it. Also it puts a questionable spin on female dominates societies (the only way the Orions do it is thanks to a little trick of their biology), rather than actually making them a strong and formiddable race.

But again, all that's just my rambling thoughts.

 

[Sandoval]

What is other people's thoughts on the Orion Syndicate?

They're a bloody pest.

 

[T'Girl]

It flipped the general concensus on its head.

I like it when the show does that, scrambles you perceptions of what you thought you understood.

 

[Stoek]

What is other people's thoughts on the Orion Syndicate?

In DS9, it seemed to be a criminal organisations (the Orion mafia as it were), that had a vast influence and was involved in just about everything. After all in all the times it was seen or mentioned, not a single Orion was present.

But in ENT it seems to be the name of their government/territory (as in the Andorian Empire, Vulcan High Command, etc), which to me doesn't sound right.

I prefer the DS9 version, as I don't envision the Orions have a very stable political system, with most people just out for themselves.

Well taking into account the totality of what we've seen or been told between ENT, TOS, and DS9, I think that the Orions are a people with a fairly anarchic and avaricious style of government (like a cross between the Chalnoth and Ferengi) who started out as traders and pirates and developed over time into the more organized Syndicate.

Also who was happy with the whole Orion women are the ones in charge idea? It flipped the general concensus on its head (that the women were basically little more than property of the males), but I never really bought it. Also it puts a questionable spin on female dominates societies (the only way the Orions do it is thanks to a little trick of their biology), rather than actually making them a strong and formiddable race.

But again, all that's just my rambling thoughts.

Personally I think you are thinking from a more moralistic perspective than an evolutionary one. It makes sense that Orion females would take a genetic advantage and make use of it, thereby turning it into a strength. If you think about it their pheremones are really no different than a males greater strength. Both are advantages it's just that one advantage turned out to be more effective than the other allowing one gender to dominate.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Syndicate is a euphemism for Organized Crime. Organized crime "families" often refer to the area they control as "territories". The Orions are organized crime on a galactic scale. Even in Enterpise they were played that way.

 

[Timo]

...It's curious that we never saw an Orion in the Orion Syndicate of the 24th century!

That is, no Shreks around. ENT really was the first show to establish that there even exists a species called Orion, and that the dominant characteristic of that species is green skin. Until then, the Syndicate might have been a species-less organization that simply was famous for (among other things) trafficking in green slave women (who themselves weren't necessarily Orion, except through ownership, and who might not even have been green until turned into slaves).

TAS did show some male Orion pirates, but those were more blue than green (even when the Orion slave women of that show were quite green, despite the infamous handicap of TAS having a color-blind director!), and weren't necessarily from the Orion species, merely from the Orion organization of outlaws.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr Silver]

I agree with Timo somewhat, I think that the Orion Syndicate was made up of a majority of non-Orions by the 24th Century.

What puzzles me about the Syndicate is the Human members that are present within it. Since material wealth has ceased as a factor in the lives of Humanity by the 24th century, surely organised crime wouldn't be a career choice for any citizen?

Then again, we have to assume that there are still people attracted to the life of an outlaw (or criminal in this case) in the 24th century.

 

[Relayer1]

I agree with Timo somewhat, I think that the Orion Syndicate was made up of a majority of non-Orions by the 24th Century.

What puzzles me about the Syndicate is the Human members that are present within it. Since material wealth has ceased as a factor in the lives of Humanity by the 24th century, surely organised crime wouldn't be a career choice for any citizen?

Then again, we have to assume that there are still people attracted to the life of an outlaw (or criminal in this case) in the 24th century.

Roman Legions were made up of subjects of Rome from all over Europe - very few of them were actually from Rome.

Material wealth has become very difficult to attain in the 24th century Federation. Even tough everyones needs are met, it would be a fair assumption that some members of humanity are still greedy and want more than a comfortable lifestyle like their fellows.

 

[Timo]

Being a villain is hard work, though. It might be difficult to find people willing to sweat that much in a quest for greater luxury...

I'm tilting more in Admiral M's direction here. The people attracted to crime might for a large part be the same as the people attracted to Starfleet. A sense of adventure, a desire for hierarchies and for power, perhaps a gun fetish or a lust for violence. They simply like what they are doing, more than they would like a comfortable life of luxury.

Of course, there is also a group where the desire for greater comfort might combine with a desire for adventure. The UFP provides its fair share of human colonists who want the hardships of frontier life, sometimes even shunning whatever comforts they could bring with them. At some point, the luddites might grow disillusioned, though - but not so much that they would crawl all the way back to the Federation. They stop halfway, and use crime to get what the frontier doesn't otherwise provide. Especially since the frontier is especially conductive for property crime - the wild human outback is the civilized backyard of alien cultures that do not have the same anti-greed attitudes as the UFP.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellincoffee]

I think the Syndicate's power fell as the various powers of the alpha quadrant matured and came together, especially by the forming of the Federation. Uniformed policies across a wide net of space may have made it easier to squelch their influence. They're powerful in Enterprise, but by TOS, they've been reduced to that of space-corsairs, and by TNG/DS9 they're almost underground, like the Mafia.

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure I see the trend there...

ENT painted the Orions as a culture and a species. In both TOS, TAS and DS9, they were seen engaging in individual criminal enterprises that still were reputed to be part of a greater whole: a mass assassination attempt in TOS, piracy in TAS, and various crimes including witness elimination and assassinations in DS9. They always were underground in those shows, without this meaning that they were lacking in influence or threat potential. Indeed, TAS seemed to treat Kirk's unique triumph over the pirates as a fatal exposé on Orion criminal secrets - but the organization behind the piracy apparently wasn't hurt much after all!

Might be the Orions only became this mighty crime organization after ENT, having been a minor single-species nuisance until then.

Although I sort of like the treatment the Orions receive in a number of books and RPGs, where they are (or claim to be) the remains of a once-mighty empire, potentially much more powerful than the 24th century UFP.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Finn]

...It's curious that we never saw an Orion in the Orion Syndicate of the 24th century!

That is, no Shreks around. ENT really was the first show to establish that there even exists a species called Orion, and that the dominant characteristic of that species is green skin. Until then, the Syndicate might have been a species-less organization that simply was famous for (among other things) trafficking in green slave women (who themselves weren't necessarily Orion, except through ownership, and who might not even have been green until turned into slaves).

TAS did show some male Orion pirates, but those were more blue than green (even when the Orion slave women of that show were quite green, despite the infamous handicap of TAS having a color-blind director!), and weren't necessarily from the Orion species, merely from the Orion organization of outlaws.

Timo Saloniemi

Didn't that Andorian in Journey in Babel turn out to be an Orion

 

[Timo]

By affiliation, yes - but his species remained ambiguous, as the disguise was so good. Spock speculated that he would turn out to be "an Orion", as the logical assumption was that he would represent the same organization that had sent the attacking ship, and that this organization served Orion interests in the Coridan issue. Whether this means that there existed an Orion species at that time is unknown from the dialogue alone - ENT simply makes this interpretation more likely than some others.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Myk]

What Are Little Girls Made Of and Yesteryear makes reference to an ancient Orion Civilization. The pirates, traders and Syndicate are probably remnants of that.

 

[Timo]

...Or then the connection best resembles that between the East Coast Mobs and the Roman Empire.

Orion is one of those constellations that doesn't display asterism of note - that is, the stars in the constellation aren't particularly close neighbors, they just appear to be clustered together when viewed from Earth. A culture "coming from Orion" might be taken to come from a prominent star in the constellation, then (and the most prominent probably is Rigel, already a Trek staple) - but it's strange that it would be called by a name that only makes sense from the Earth point of view. Even if the Universal Translator always turns the Ferengi name for "constellation Orion" into the English equivalent, it still sounds stupid for the Ferengi to call the pirates by their word for "constellation Orion". Or perhaps the widespread constellation echoes the extensive and expansive nature of the Orion crime organization, or the old Orion civilization?

Memory Alpha even speaks of a planet (star?) named Orion, but there isn't much canon support for the idea. The closest we get to that is a reference on Probert's old star chart, seen on screen (but off focus) in TNG "Conspiracy". Any mention of a thing native to Orion could be considered to refer to the interstellar civilization. And that includes biological references: Orion wing-slugs could be something found on every Orion world, propagated by the Orion culture just like humans helped rats spread through the Pacific.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Badger]

Also who was happy with the whole Orion women are the ones in charge idea? It flipped the general concensus on its head (that the women were basically little more than property of the males), but I never really bought it. Also it puts a questionable spin on female dominates societies (the only way the Orions do it is thanks to a little trick of their biology), rather than actually making them a strong and formiddable race.

This was a ludicrous idea. Yes, I can see what the writers were trying to do. They didn't want to portray the women as victims, and so avoid an unpleasant stereotype. Fair enough. Instead the Orion women use their sexuality to manipulate men, view other women as rivals to be gotten rid of, and strive for power and material possessions. So, no unpleasant sexist stereotypes there.

It also makes no sense. The only way such a scheme could work is if it is a secret. Would a powerful businessman buy a slave if he knew within a few weeks she'd depose him as head of his company? I think not. So once the cat was out of the bag, thanks to Archer and co., the 'slave trade' was doomed. Yet we know from 'The Cage' that it was still active in Pike's time. Indeed, Pike himself considered becoming a trader!

The whole 'Orion women are in charge' was an attempt to fix a bit of 60's sexism, badly thought out.