Spoilers The Swarm vs Borg Cube

[AJE]

Inspired by the other thread about the USS Vengeance vs the Swarm. If I had to defend Starfleet from the Borg after an encounter, and I had access to Krall's alien technology, would reverse-engineering the Swarm ships and their android pilots be an effective countermeasure against a Borg invasion?

I'm assuming a fleet of Swarm ships the same size as the one that attacked Yorktown Station in Star Trek Beyond, and that the Borg don't know about the Swarm's key weakness, although they can learn it through analyisis, experience, or by capturing Starfleet information on it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Swarm shreds the Borg until they assimilate the Beastie Boys and turn the tide.

 

[David cgc]

It seems one important aspect would be whether the Borg can repair damage faster than the Swarm can inflict it, which depends entirely on the size of the Swarm and the size of the Cube. The second factor would be how quickly the Borg can assimilate the Swarm. Given that the Swarm ships don't seem to have any defenses against being beamed into, there likely wouldn't be anything to stop the Borg from transporting drones into the various Swarm ships, and then assimilating the Marauder drones (which should be possible whether they're organic or robotic) and assimilating and commandeering the ships themselves.

At that point, it's either a battle of attrition, with the Swarm trying to erode the Cube to the point of uselessness before the Swarm itself is depleted by having its ships destroyed or captured individually, or the Borg use their assimilated access to the cyberpathic network to assume control over the Swarm. We know the Borg aren't above cyber-warfare from their attempts to hack into the Enterprise's main computer from First Contact, though they're apparently not very good at it, and between the "Sleep" command, Future-Janeway's virus, and any prior attempts along the lines of the logic-bomb puzzle-thing in "I, Borg," the Collective probably has assimilated plenty of strategies for co-opting a highly networked computerized adversary.

 

[publiusr]

It would be an interesting fight.

If I had to trap a swarm--I might design a borg cube like holoship--as from Insurrection.

The swarm "bees" seem to be able to penetrate well, so I wait with marines with Geordi's visor.

The holoship will use its fields to disorient the swarm occupants My Marines can see their targets floating helplessly--and pick them off--seeing through the holoship illusions.

 

[Go-Captain]

I would expect the Borg to figure out the signal fairly quickly, a TNG cube should have better signal processing than the 23rd century Enterprise. For that matter, I would expect the same of the Enterprise-D and for it to do it with better signal jamming range.

Worst case for the Borg, they have to flood their own ship with nanites to assimilate the swarm ships, in the hope that the nanites will stick to the swarm ship hulls and gradually assimilate them. Although, that is more likely something the VOY Borg could do, rather than the TNG Borg.

Defensively, given the decentralized nature of Cubes and the speed of regeneration, I would expect the swarm to find it very difficult to cut up a cube enough to permanently disable it for any appreciable amount of time.

 

[topcat]

calculate the damage inflicted by the D in "best of both worlds". a photon torpedo barrage that created a hole in the cube as large as the D herself, that was rebuilt in the same amount of time as it took for the explosions to dissipate.

And in first contact, they blew large portions of the queens cube off, and the cube kept regenerating and going, until the E had the fleet start firing on that single sub junction...

However do not forget that the borg self destruct when their is the possibility of capture by a superior enemy, thus the first few minutes of the swarm attack would be them flying through the cube, the cube sending a distress call to the borg fleet, and self destructing with a good chunk of the swarm inside it.
The Borg fleet sent to investigate would loose maybe 3 ships before assimilating or destroying the swarm.

 

[DonIago]

I just can't see the Swarm having much luck here.

1) Federation ships have clear points of vulnerability (i.e. snip off the nacelles). Borg ships are decentralized.
2) Borg cubes a la TNG are much, much larger than Federation ships (though perhaps not relative to Yorktown?).
3) The Borg probably have a much more sophisticated internal communication system than the Swarm, which means blocking or co-opting the Swarm should be simple.
4) Borg weapon systems are likely much more adaptable to the Swarm's attack style than Starfleet tactical systems.
5) Krall had some knowledge of the E prior to their encounter. He'd have no such advance knowledge of the Borg...not that having advance knowledge of the Borg has proven particularly helpful in other encounters with them.
6) Borg shield technology is likely much more powerful and adaptable than Starfleet shielding.

 

[topcat]

if the borg use shields on their ships it must be new type of shield. the only shield effects I have seen on borg vessels was on Voyager episodes.
TNG and First Contact, weapons hit the direct hull.

 

[DonIago]

We know the Borg can generate personal shields, so it seems silly to me to think that they wouldn't have shields for their ships as well, or at least the ability to generate them if they desired to.

 

[AJE]

2) Borg cubes a la TNG are much, much larger than Federation ships (though perhaps not relative to Yorktown?).

Yorktown is huge compared to a Borg cube. It's 30 kilometers (19 miles) in diameter- 10 times the size of a cube.

 

[DonIago]

I have to admit, I'd like to see that as a visual. Though I suspect a Borg cube would wipe Yorktown out in gruesome fashion, one way or another.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The Borg would destroy the swarm in less time that it takes you to say 'assimilate'. The basic tactic of the Swarm is to attack in a stream and penetrate a ship. As was pointed out earlier, they couldn't inflict the damage to the Borg cube the did on the Enterprise -- i.e. nothing is thin enough to cause amputation.

So, they'll collide with the hull and get inside. First, the hull will self-repair, trapping them and preventing further incursion by adaptation. Second, the Swarm troops who are inside will get one of two shots off before the Borg adapt, then they'll be assimilated. After that, ball game over for the Swarm. The Borg will know everything about them, and will overwhelm their communications.

Next?....

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Swarm is this invincible, unrelenting foe. The Borg could handle them. The Vengeance could handle them. Sheesh -- the Enterprise-D could handle them. What happened to wide-dispersal phasers and/or photon torpedo spreads?

 

[DonIago]

Well, I'm not convinced Vengeance could handle them, but there's a thread for that...

But to me the most basic points with regards to any ship versus the swarm are:
1) How long will it take the vessel to either escape the swarm or devise a defense?
2) How long can the vessel endure attack by the swarm before suffering critical damage?

As long as 2>1 the ship will survive.

 

[AJE]

I have to admit, I'd like to see that as a visual. Though I suspect a Borg cube would wipe Yorktown out in gruesome fashion, one way or another.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/23809061/
Not quite a Borg cube comparison, but the movie screenshot does show its size compared to the Enterprise.

 

[JasonJ]

I see no contest here, and think WarpFactorZ has it exactly right as to how it will proceed.

Once a single swarm ship and android pilot are assimilated, game over.