The state of the Avengers (spoilers and speculations)

[Turtletrekker]

Well, New Avengers is approaching it's five year anniversary just in time for Siege. Siege, of course, is the latest Marvel event that promises to shake up the Avengers franchise to its core yet again. I thought it might be an appropriate time to take a look at what Brian Michael Bendis has done to Earth's Mightiest Heros, for better or worse.

I read an interview with Bendis way back where he said his ultimate plan for the Avengers and the MU in general was to put the Avengers back in the spotlight of the Marvel universe again (rather than the mutant books). To make the cry "Avengers Assemble!" mean something again. I didn't read "Dis-Assembled" until after the fact because as far as the Avengers were concerned it really had seemed to me like they had done it all before. I read it when it came out in trade some time later, and have to admit that Bendis certainly took it all apart. Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Vision dead? The mansion gutted? No more government money? No more Stark money? Definetly the end of the Avengers as we have known them.

I liked New Avengers because it looked different. Spider-Man? Wolverine? Really? Captain America, Iron Man and Jarvis (or so we thought!) there for a bit of the old-school. I liked it because it was a different take on the Avengers legacy. I liked the change of scenery. I liked the new dynamic, the new priorities. And I liked Spider-Man. It didn't feel like the Avengers of old and that's what brought me back to the fold.

Then Civil War came and knocked the new dynamic on it's ass. But it also expanded the legacy and created a new dynamic. the New Avengers were now the outlaw team fighting on after the death of Captain America. The Mighty Avengers were the official team.And Avengers Initiative were the minor leaguers. Not to mention the occasional Young Avengers mini thrown in for good measure.

Then in short order came Invasion, and in the aftermath, the Dark Avengers (or as I call them "Thunderbolts with delusions of granduer") and yet a new dynamic. For the New Avengers, as the opposition to the pretenders who have stolen their legacy, and for Mighty Avengers-- the face of the "real" Avengers on the world stage. Ironically enough, the Dan Slott Mighty Avengers is by far the best of the Avengers books in the "Bendis era". I loved the recent multi-team crossover in MA against The Unspoken.

And now comes Siege and the promise of a new shake-up and a new dynamic. The return of the Avengers of old as Steve Rogers, Tony Stark and Thor (and presumably Pym) fight together as Avengers for the first time in over seven years. "Avengers Assemble" indeed.

Has it all been worth it? Has Bendis succeeded in putting the Avengers at the center of the Marvel Universe? There are certainly more Avengers books out there than when Bendis took over. If ten years ago, someone had told me that one day I'd be buying more Avengers books than X-Men or Spider-Man combined, I'd have laughed at them. Yet, here we are.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr Light]

I'm loving the past five years of the Avengers, and I never cared for them before this. NewA has been consistently excellent. I really liked the brief stint of MightyA as the official team (wish they had time to do more stories with them). I really like AInitiative too. There's only one trade of the new Mighty so far but I liked it. Can't wait for Siege!

 

[Trent Roman]

I've only read up to the SI trades, but I'd say they've certainly managed to make the Avengers the prime vehicle for showcasing their fictional universe as a whole. Other titles, like the X-Books, Spiderman or FF, will always have a certain degree of insularity in their premise, but the Avengers' mandate, and the wide-open roster, lets them tell stories at any scope, from local throwdowns to epic events. I've also liked the idea of different, sometimes competing teams--'avenger', much like terms such as 'patriotism', has entered that contested area where everybody is trying to lay claim to the title, according to their own particular understanding and ideology.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Turtletrekker]

All of the Bendis "events" have come with a price of some sort. A character or characters killed or otherwise done away with. In Secret War it was Nick Fury, Dis-Assembled cost us the Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye (albiet temporarily), Scott Lang and the Vision (techincally still gone as a new personality inhabits the body now). House of M cost us 2 million mutant red-shirts. In Civil War it was Captain America and in Secret Invasion it was The Wasp.

One of the solicitaions for the Siege event is for a book called "Fallen". Although, they also said that that's not the final title, it makes you wonder who is going on the block. I hope for Hermiod's sake the end of Ms. Marvel's book with issue 50 doesn't bode ill for Carol Danvers. The cover of her final issue looks to be an homage of the cover of the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel.

Can't wait for Siege!

I'm right there with you. The ending of New Avengers Annual 3 has me really psyched for it. I actually got a shiver down my spine when...

Spoiler: Coded for trade readers

...Steve Rogers showed up (sadly spoiling the end of Reborn) and said that, "...the world has gone to Hell. But thank God the Avengers are here to do something about it. And we are. You ready?"

Yes I am.

I've only read up to the SI trades, but I'd say they've certainly managed to make the Avengers the prime vehicle for showcasing their fictional universe as a whole. Other titles, like the X-Books, Spiderman or FF, will always have a certain degree of insularity in their premise, but the Avengers' mandate, and the wide-open roster, lets them tell stories at any scope, from local throwdowns to epic events. I've also liked the idea of different, sometimes competing teams--'avenger', much like terms such as 'patriotism', has entered that contested area where everybody is trying to lay claim to the title, according to their own particular understanding and ideology.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Even Osborn has taken to being an Avenger in his own psychotic way. It's not just pretend or a scam to him. As far as he is concerned his team is the Avengers and Barton and Pym's teams are the pretenders.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Bendis is a great writer; I love Powers and I wish Alias had continued. But he shouldn't be writing superhero books, at least not without some editorial direction. He's part of the reason that Marvel books have that sameness about them now, rather than the individuality they had when there were a variety of great writers in the Bullpen, each with a highly idiosyncratic style.

And, unfortunately, he's been a large part of the deconstructionism, character assassination and "shocking" deaths that have made Marvel Comics unreadable for the past several years. I can only hope that at some point they will go back to publishing stories, rather than gimmicks.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Bendis has been getting editorial direction and most of his pitches and ideas are ultimately approved by Joe Q. I'm a big fan and have been enjoying the direction in which he has been guiding the Marvel Universe in the last ten years or so. I've read past interviews in which he has stated that one of his intentions was to strip the Marvel Universe take it into a dark, distorted place, and then slowly rebuild it into a new golden age. The Siege is just the start of reestablishing a coherent world. I'm really looking forward to the Siege and I'm even more eager to see Norman's downfall...the Spider-Cabal has been on record saying that Peter will have a major part to play in Norman's take down.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Joe Q is a really creative guy and he's probably brought a level of creative energy to the job unseen since Shooter in the 80s; unfortunately, in my opinion, his decisions have been almost entirely disastrous. And I'm sure the extent of his editorial direction of Bendis is, "You go, guy."

I hadn't heard his comments about destroying and rebuilding the MU, but if it does get rebuilt, I'll be there. I grew up with Marvel and I miss it. But in its current state, honestly, I can't even get through the capsule descriptions in Previews without nodding off.

 

[Mr Light]

Civil War was Mark Millar's idea, and my understanding was that Bendis didn't have a say in how that went through so all his related stories were just reactions to a pre-existing frame.

 

[CaptainCanada]

the Vision (techincally still gone as a new personality inhabits the body now

The extent of the difference is mostly that one liked Wanda and another likes Cassie.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Joe Q is a really creative guy and he's probably brought a level of creative energy to the job unseen since Shooter in the 80s; unfortunately, in my opinion, his decisions have been almost entirely disastrous. And I'm sure the extent of his editorial direction of Bendis is, "You go, guy."

I hadn't heard his comments about destroying and rebuilding the MU, but if it does get rebuilt, I'll be there. I grew up with Marvel and I miss it. But in its current state, honestly, I can't even get through the capsule descriptions in Previews without nodding off.

I can't do it without wanting someone to take Marvel Editorial, Bendis, and esp Millar out in the street and beat them like rented pinyatas...

The only "shakeup" I'm interested in is the complete retcon obliteration of the MU since the Stamford Incident. A complete "it didn't happen" reset.

 

[barnaclelapse]

All I know is that I think my favorite aspect of Civil War was what The Avengers went through and how the dynamic of the series shifted and changed into what we got going now.

I'm pretty excited at what seems to be on the horizon for them.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Civil War was Mark Millar's idea, and my understanding was that Bendis didn't have a say in how that went through so all his related stories were just reactions to a pre-existing frame.

Well, I'm not saying Bendis did everything, but he has been a huge influence. And I know who he is. All the other writers and artists just sort of blur together for me these days.

The only "shakeup" I'm interested in is the complete retcon obliteration of the MU since the Stamford Incident. A complete "it didn't happen" reset.

I'd like to see an 'event' where it's revealed that we've been watching a dark Mirror Universe for the past ten or fifteen years, and at the end we return to where we're supposed to be, with the tone and character of the real Marvel Universe restored.

 

[klingonmaquis]

I can't do it without wanting someone to take Marvel Editorial, Bendis, and esp Millar out in the street and beat them like rented pinyatas...

The only "shakeup" I'm interested in is the complete retcon obliteration of the MU since the Stamford Incident. A complete "it didn't happen" reset.

I am right with ya brother....Marvel's books have been kinda on the suck side for a while. The Cosmic books though have been a good read from them, GOTD, Nova, ect.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

The only "shakeup" I'm interested in is the complete retcon obliteration of the MU since the Stamford Incident. A complete "it didn't happen" reset.

I'd like to see an 'event' where it's revealed that we've been watching a dark Mirror Universe for the past ten or fifteen years, and at the end we return to where we're supposed to be, with the tone and character of the real Marvel Universe restored.

I suppose that too would be acceptable. Either way, the 616 universe would be restored.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It would seem that Marvel is canning its entire Avengers line after Siege, presumably awaiting a more classic re-boot as a part of the upcoming Heroic Age. I hope Spider-Man stays on board.

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/01/marvels-avengers-franchise-to-end-in-the-wake-of-siege/

This is not surprising in the least given the direction the books have taken of late with the return of Steve Rogers and the upcoming fall of Norman Osborn. I know that a lot of people have disliked the "Bendis era", but I see the whole thing as a journey that was worth taking. The Fall and Rise of Earth Mightiest Heroes.

Dark and Initiative would seem to be irrelevant after Siege anyway.

 

[Mr Light]

I was always assuming that post-Siege it would revert to a single title just called "Avengers". I was hoping Initiative would stay around in some form though because I really enjoy that comic. I like the idea of a team book showing all the brand new C list heroes learning their powers under government supervision.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I was always assuming that post-Siege it would revert to a single title just called "Avengers". I was hoping Initiative would stay around in some form though because I really enjoy that comic. I like the idea of a team book showing all the brand new C list heroes learning their powers under government supervision.

The only idea I like is a book showing Wanda Maximoff waking up and saying "Boy, what a nightmare" and everything since Disassembled having never happened.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yeah, we got that from you , what was it, two posts ago?

No matter how much you dislike a story, nothing is more lame than a reset. Hell, as much as I dis-like the "One More Day" story in Amazing Spider-Man,I would like it far less if they decided to simply pretend it never happened.

 

[Praetor]

Yeah, reset buttons, even for stories that you don't like, set a lousy precedent for using the reset button, which ultimately undermines the consequences for anything that happens.

 

[mswood]

For the most part hate what he has done with the avengers. I don't dislike his writing per say, but I often don't find his characters behaving in logical or rational means to advance the plot (which that part I am generally fond of).

I also cannot stand Wolvie as an Avenger (how the hell does this character inhabit so many titles, his presence in many titles completely takes me out of the story, though in fairness I can't stand Beast as an X-Men), and the sentry character bothers me beyond my ability to express ideas in words. But I like the addition of Parker, Drew and Cage (it was especially nice to see Cage and Drew used so well).

With this writer I often love, love the concept, but often feel he will sacrifice a character character (not the killing off of a character, that doesn't bother me as Marvel now has about 1000 characters that I find either reduntant or utterly annoying that I would love to see die) to get the denizens int eh marvel universe to fit the events he has created.