The Starless World

[Jbarney]

I enjoyed this one more than I thought I would. I was surprised that some things that have been discussed in different threads recently popped up in The Starless World.

1. Another version of the fate of Kirk's father

2. Referencing Classic novels. I may have read the book a long time ago, but I was surprised to see that the ship encountered a Dyson's Sphere. I believe this makes three that have popped up in the trek universe. There was the one from "Relics", there was one in the New Frontier stories (If I recall correctly) and now this one.

I know the book was written long before TNG came out, but I just found it interesting the idea of the Dyson Spheres was explored way back in the Bantam books.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I may have read the book a long time ago, but I was surprised to see that the ship encountered a Dyson's Sphere. I believe this makes three that have popped up in the trek universe. There was the one from "Relics", there was one in the New Frontier stories (If I recall correctly) and now this one.

Peter David called Gerrid Thul's space station in Double or Nothing a "Dyson Sphere," but there was nothing Dyson Sphere-like about it. It was just a spherical space station, not unlike a James Bond impregnable fortress, with the evil henchmen running around in matching unisex jumpsuits, and the station had an impressive name so that it sounded impressive. Not a Dyson Sphere.

 

[William Leisner]

I know the book was written long before TNG came out, but I just found it interesting the idea of the Dyson Spheres was explored way back in the Bantam books.

I find it more interesting that Freeman Dyson idea for his sphere was apparently inspired by a 1930s pulp SF story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

 

[Christopher]

Peter David called Gerrid Thul's space station in Double or Nothing a "Dyson Sphere," but there was nothing Dyson Sphere-like about it. It was just a spherical space station, not unlike a James Bond impregnable fortress, with the evil henchmen running around in matching unisex jumpsuits, and the station had an impressive name so that it sounded impressive. Not a Dyson Sphere.

A more accurate term for it would be a Bernal sphere.


Of course, neither of the "Dyson spheres" in ST, either in The Starless World or "Relics," is accurate either, since Dyson never proposed a solid spherical shell with habitations inside, which would be impractical for numerous reasons. For one thing, in a solid shell, the stellar wind would accumulate inside with no means of release, and you'd basically have an immense pressure cooker waiting to burst. For another, there'd be no internal gravity from the sphere itself and anything resting on the inner surface would fall into the star. For another, it wouldn't be particularly stable, since its center of mass is within the star rather than orbiting it; if it were pushed off-center, it would just continue to drift in that direction until the star slammed into a side of the shell. (Similar to the Ringworld instability problem that compelled Larry Niven to write the first sequel to Ringworld, except in that case an instability is amplified by the dynamics of the system while in the Dyson Sphere case the dynamics neither amplify it nor cancel it.)

The Starless World was one of the first original Trek novels I read, ages ago, but it's been a long time since I read it. It had some rather... offbeat concepts in it. Also a very different understanding of warp travel velocities than we have now, though one consistent with TAS: "The Magicks of Megas-tu" (and as I recall, the novel actually alludes to that episode, stating that the Enterprise has been to the galactic core once before).

 

[Thrawn]

^ I learn so much random crap hanging out with you all.

 

[Jbarney]

The Starless World was one of the first original Trek novels I read, ages ago, but it's been a long time since I read it. It had some rather... offbeat concepts in it. Also a very different understanding of warp travel velocities than we have now, though one consistent with TAS: "The Magicks of Megas-tu" (and as I recall, the novel actually alludes to that episode, stating that the Enterprise has been to the galactic core once before).

The concept of the galactic core being visited is something I have spent some brain power trying to rationalize, but I am at work and that information is for another post. I didn't get the sense that "The Magicks of Megas-tu" was referenced though. Yes the galactic core and their proximity to it was central to the story, but I'll have to double check....I don't think the wording alluded to a previous visit to the galactic core....

Will have to check. If you have the info Christopher...let me know....

Jason

 

[Christopher]

I don't think the wording alluded to a previous visit to the galactic core....

I am certain that it did say they'd been there before, somewhere in the first few pages, although I don't have the book on hand to verify it and neither Amazon nor Google Books has searchable text for it.

 

[Jbarney]

If I recall correctly there is actually a reference in Spock Must Die!!! about the ship being on the far side of the "galactic core". I will have to check the reference in the Starless World tonight when I get home from work.

I'm just wondering though, if the reference is there and it does state they have been to the "galactic core" before, does that mean its a reference to specifically to "The Magicks of Megas Tu"?. If there were a reference to them being near the "galactic core" before that is one thing, but I am virtually certain the events of "Magicks" was not referenced specifically.

Writer's intent?

 

[Christopher]

^^Well, what else could it have been referring to? It was a 1978 book. ST V hadn't come out yet. And at the time, there was no Richard Arnold telling novelists they couldn't refer to TAS.

In Voyages of the Imagination, Gordon Eklund says that he wasn't too familiar with ST, but he relied heavily on the ST Concordance. The Concordance incorporated TOS and TAS together and gave them equal weight in terms of continuity. Given that Eklund used the STC as his primary reference, he would've been aware of the events of "Megas-tu."

I mean, why else throw in an otherwise pointless reference to the ship having been to the core before? It serves no in-story purpose. The only reason I can see for its inclusion is to acknowledge established series continuity, or what was assumed to be such at the time.

 

[Jbarney]

From The Starless World, page 1:

"Captain's Log 6527.5

The awesome spectacle of the Galactic Core continues to weave a spell over the ships crew, even those veterans who have passed this way before."

Christopher, I can see where this could be linked to 'Magicks" but I think the reference is pretty open. Perhaps the writers intent was indeed to fall back on TAS as a reference, but you have to admit this is pretty open. Its so open I think it is possible he (Kirk) could even be referring to any veteran of Starfleet who had traveled near the "galactic core" based on the wierd warp speeds used in TAS and some of the early stories.

Could even be referring to Spock Must Die! On page 9 there is a reference to the Enterprise being on the other side of the "Shapely Center". I just think "even those veterans who have passed this way before" could mean anything.

I am not saying it isn't a reference to "Magicks", I'm just saying this one is vague enough to be open to discussion. I'm not sure there is enough to clearly identify it.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

^I still don't see any reason to doubt that it's a reference to "Megas-tu." It's unlikely to have anything to do with Spock Must Die!; again, Eklund wasn't especially familiar with ST and was basing his work largely on the Concordance. It is therefore a given that he would've been aware of "Megas-tu," so he was presumably aware of the visit to the galactic core in that episode when he wrote the book.

If, for whatever reason, you wanted to rationalize that line in your own mind as meaning something else, that's up to you. But I see no reason to doubt that it was the intended reference on the author's part.

Oh, and it's the Shapley Center, not "Shapely." Named for astronomer Harlow Shapley, who discovered it (or, rather, deduced its existence). The nomenclature seems to have fallen out of use since the book was written.

 

[Jbarney]

^
Oh, and it's the Shapley Center, not "Shapely." Named for astronomer Harlow Shapley, who discovered it (or, rather, deduced its existence). The nomenclature seems to have fallen out of use since the book was written.

I couldn't tell from my notes on Spock Must Die which one it was.

 

[Jbarney]

^
If, for whatever reason, you wanted to rationalize that line in your own mind as meaning something else, that's up to you. But I see no reason to doubt that it was the intended reference on the author's part.

As a member of the timeliners I am interested in making sure that our placement of the different Bantam books is precise. Currently we have most of them in 2269, after the run of the TOS episodes.

The reason I am so into this discussion is if you are correct, and the reference in The Starless World is a nod to "Magicks", then this might be a section of the timeline or group of books which may need more attention.

Right now, what you are posting about TAS/The Starless World conflicts with our current placement. For me, it becomes a question of how much evidence is there to bring up a discussion about a possible move.

So I appreciate the discussion and the attention to detail.

Jason