The Sleeve Braids: Returning to the TOS Pilot Concept?

[cooleddie74]

As you may or may not be aware, the redesigned TOS uniform shirts for TREK XI have altered and streamlined rank braids on the sleeves, located closer to the edge of the cuff than they were on TOS many years back and seeming to lack the ridges and sewn-in design patterns that distinguished the old TOS rank braids. It appears as if the new movie is hearkening back to the way the sleeve braids appeared or even functioned in the two original TOS pilots, before the pattern was set for how many solid and/or broken braids represented which rank in Starfleet. Does anyone have any thoughts on the changes in the rank braids, and whether or not it appears that the template has been changed in regards to how many or which kind of braid determines rank in the new/changed timeline?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It looks as if the rank system is identical to that in TOS. "The Cage" did feature ribbons on the cuffs of the uniforms, but if they followed any system at all it was different from TOS's - Pike, "Number One" and Spock all wear a single stripe which may or may not vary in color.

The only visible difference between the rank in TOS and the new movie is the design of the braid itself - it's now a simple silver band without the "loop" around it, and they use a half-wide stripe like the current Navy instead of a broken stripe like TOS.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^Which makes the rank braid far more neater and cleaner looking on the cuff.

 

[Smarkey]

There's nothing to this but wild theory, but it fits the topic. I remember somewhere someone speculated that to allow for the relative youth of the characters (and the early state of their careers), while still keeping them looking "correct" as we remember them, the rank system might be completely overhauled to something like the TNG pip system.

So Urban-McCoy is really a Lieutenant Junior Grade rather than a Lieutenant Commander; same with Spock, etc. This means when we see Kirk in gold he is a Lieutenant Commander rather than Captain. The Rosetta stone for this would be Capt. Pike's braids, which we've never seen (where we would need four full stripes for this idea to work).

I don't really expect this is what is being done, and the film will have its own justifications for why all characters are at their traditional ranks (at least by the end). Or so I hope.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So Urban-McCoy is really a Lieutenant Junior Grade rather than a Lieutenant Commander; same with Spock, etc. This means when we see Kirk in gold he is a Lieutenant Commander rather than Captain. The Rosetta stone for this would be Capt. Pike's braids, which we've never seen (where we would need four full stripes for this idea to work).

No, it's not like that. The rank braids in ST XI are the same system as in TOS, except that the 'half' braid is now also an unbroken line, just thinner. It's not a 'dashed' line as it was in the original series.

As for Pike? *His* braids are different, because in "The Cage" there was only just the one rank braid for ALL OFFICERS (meaning: All officers wear one rank braid on their sleeves. Everyone else has nothing). They changed it for ST XI to bring Pike's uniform in line with all the rest of the characters. He should now have the two-solid-braids-and-one-half-braid that all other TOS Captains wear.

 

[Smarkey]

So Urban-McCoy is really a Lieutenant Junior Grade rather than a Lieutenant Commander; same with Spock, etc. This means when we see Kirk in gold he is a Lieutenant Commander rather than Captain. The Rosetta stone for this would be Capt. Pike's braids, which we've never seen (where we would need four full stripes for this idea to work).

No, it's not like that. The rank braids in ST XI are the same system as in TOS, except that the 'half' braid is now also an unbroken line, just thinner. It's not a 'dashed' line as it was in the original series.

As for Pike? *His* braids are different, because in "The Cage" there was only just the one rank braid for ALL OFFICERS (meaning: All officers wear one rank braid on their sleeves. Everyone else has nothing). They changed it for ST XI to bring Pike's uniform in line with all the rest of the characters. He should now have the two-solid-braids-and-one-half-braid that all other TOS Captains wear.

Oh, I agree. I assume he now has the "Nu-TOS" rank display of two full and one half stripe as well.

 

[ROBE]

Or Pike might have three full stripes if they have a Fleet Captain rank?
Personally I was hoping they would use the modern navy or Motion Picture rank system so ensigns look different from ratings.

 

[cooleddie74]

Maybe there are little notches or embossed stripes on some of the braids to sort of emulate the 22nd century ENT and 24th century TNG square/pip system of rank determination? In the two TOS pilots you could never really tell if some of the Enterprise officers had details on their rank braids that showed they were a rank higher or lower than another person who appeared to have the same one.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Or Pike might have three full stripes if they have a Fleet Captain rank?
Personally I was hoping they would use the modern navy or Motion Picture rank system so ensigns look different from ratings.

I'd rather prefer the modern American Navy system as well. I imagine that one reason it was never used in TOS to begin with is that the uniforms were so simple in design that more than a few stripes on the sleeves looked like overkill.

 

[cooleddie74]

Or Pike might have three full stripes if they have a Fleet Captain rank?
Personally I was hoping they would use the modern navy or Motion Picture rank system so ensigns look different from ratings.

I'd rather prefer the modern American Navy system as well. I imagine that one reason it was never used in TOS to begin with is that the uniforms were so simple in design that more than a few stripes on the sleeves looked like overkill.

In TMP we got to see Admiral uniforms with lots of extra braids. But they looked too busy. Kirk's Admiral uniform from the start of the film was regal, but had too much of a U.S. Navy flag officer feel to it for Starfleet.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Or Pike might have three full stripes if they have a Fleet Captain rank?...

I agree that Pike may already be Fleet Captain throughout most (all?) of his parts in this film.

I think it's possible that

Spoiler: Spoiler

the fight "pre-Academy Kirk" gets into at the bar with the Starfleet guys is the time that he first meets Pike -- Pike was at the bar celebrating his promotion. Kirk did say in The Menagerie that he met Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. This bar fight could have been that occasion

I agree with Smarkey that if we ever see Pike's sleeves in another trailer or publicity still, it would be a "Rosetta Stone" of sorts since we know he will be the highest-ranking officer on the bridge during most of this film. His rank would be the "upper baseline".

 

[ROBE]

Or if ensigns have no rank stripe then their starfleet badges should have some design variation from enlisted. In the past many armed forces lacked a rank stripe/pip/bar etc for their lowest ranking officers but their uniforms were different from enlisted. Modern day Royal Navy midshipmen lack rank stripes but their uniforms, cap badges are those of an officer and they have a white patch with button on their lapel or shoulder.

The rank stripes on the new uniforms are more discrete than the originals so they could have four stripes for a captain.

 

[cooleddie74]

Maybe ensigns and enlisted crewmen have special embossed logos somewhere on their sleeve or shirt chest? We haven't seen any good close ups of Chekov's uniform yet to determine.

 

[M'Sharak]

Maybe ensigns and enlisted crewmen have special embossed logos somewhere on their sleeve or shirt chest? We haven't seen any good close ups of Chekov's uniform yet to determine.

Nothing on the sleeve that I can see nor anything on the chest besides the same Starfleet delta everyone wears.

From JoeRalat's Hi-Res Screencaps thread:

http://www.joseralat.com/uploads/screen-capture-37.jpg

And from the pre-trailer promo photos:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xi/screencaps/prerelease/bs120_20716_56.jpg

 

[Therin of Andor]

"The Cage" did feature ribbons on the cuffs of the uniforms

Gold-painted rubber bands from the Desilu stationery cupboard.