The Sarajevo class - extra terrestrial origin

[Mr_Closet]

This has probably been done to death, but if it has, the search function refuses to show me the million page thread that covered it, so I'll stick this up anyway and apologies if it's old news.

The Sarajevo was just one of many, many, many things that irked me about the prequel series, but it's one I think I've satisfactorily explained. As as ever, the best explanations are the simplest and shortest.

To get to the point: there is no way Earth built this ship. Compare Earth's most advanced ship of the day to the Sarajevo in this image from Ex Astris (or see below if you're having hotlinking problems).

I know this is like judging a book by it's cover, but would you mistake a Sopwith biplane for a more advanced fighter than a P-51 Mustang? Or would you believe that a Ford Focus is a more primitive vehicle than a Model T when parked side by side?

No, you wouldn't, and similarly, I don't believe we can consider the Sarajevo to be an earlier Earth-designed vessel than the NX class.

So, what's my brilliant suggestion?

It's an export model that Earth bought from a more advanced alien race.

Who? The Vulcans seem like reasonable candidates. The design generally reflects the organic look of their designs in this period and it seems reasonable that they could supply a Down-graded export design to the humans (presumably with a simpler, slower warp drive and empty slots for the humans to install their own weaponry and sensors). After all, the relationship between the two is over a hundred years old. In all that time, is it really believable that there was not even limited technology transfer? It wouldn't hurt the humans to have some nice stuff, and it would help the Vulcan agenda by keeping the humans sweet while simultaneously enhancing the human reliance on Vulcan.

 

[tau136]

With the Vulcan's total intransigence towards any "involvement" in development of other races, the roughly parallel development of the main Trek spacefarers and the Federation's rocky relations with most of them the balance of probability is that it has to be a Terran development. It is somehow reminiscent of the Defiant.

 

[Timo]

Why would the Sarajevo be out of line with Earth's other designs? It's clearly not from the same vein as the Enterprise and the Intrepid, but it is quite similar to the triangular ships that accompanied the Intrepid in "The Expanse" and "Twilight". Or the supposedly a tad more primitive triangle ship from the opening credits.

The rounded "lifting body" shape might simply be standard for one-half of Starfleet's operational profile: missions involving descent to planetary surfaces and ascent back to orbit. The saucer-hulled ships would be less comfortable down in the soup, but would be nicely adapted to operations in deep space and at high warp.

As for the idea that Earth would buy from outside sources, I think that goes without saying. But I'd rather argue that Earth bought those vessel types that don't have the familiar Starfleet hull color or the familiar smooth-but-sorta-riveted surface finish. Ex-astris-scientia features many candidates in the excellent "Redresses of ship type X" articles.

The sellers would probably be species, cultures or organizations that are adversarial to Vulcans at least to some degree, and take delight in empowering the humans to rebel against their Vulcan overlords. This would also explain how we encounter these designs later on in the hands of close UFP allies and enemies: Earth would convince some of the sellers to join the UFP, by virtue of having these tech-exchange ties with them, while others would rather continue their old animosity.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not seeing the problem. By what criterea are we judging the Sarajevo "more sophisticated". The arrowhead/triangle/cone shape coupled with the cruiseship decks suggests atmospheric or ocean going ships. Which to me indicates a culture not quite ready to let go of its terrestrial origins and venture into deep space.

 

[Mr_Closet]

If we take modern ship design as an analogy, any study of the trend in merchant or navy architecture over the past half century will reveal distinct progress towards generally smoother, more self-contained, integrated designs in which all the "greeblies" are either built into the ship itself or contained within structures that have been expanded out to the sides of the hull (you don't get deck houses, you just get extra internal spaces. No one needs to go outside and get wet anymore). These approaches have been made possible not only by greater understanding of hydrodynamics and ship stability, but also by computer aided design and the employment of modern materials with new properties that were not available 50 years ago.

The Sarajevo looks more sophisticated because it looks like the product of a similar, more mature, design process utilising greater understanding of the physics of space flight and incorporating the benefits of new materials with radical new properties that were not available when Enterprise was built.

In short, it looks like a design Earth might build, but not for many more decades.

What is the most obvious characteristic, aside from the cleaner profile? The Sarajevo is unique amongst other Earth vessels in having the warp engines integrated into the hull - if this is desirable than why don't other ships with, as Nerys suggests, atmospheric capability (such as the Warp Delta, perhaps) also integrate the nacelles? Why doesn't Enterprise? Surely containing them within the hull would provide much greater protection, especially for combat ships like Enterprise?

Even the hull plating is significantly different, the layout generally more flowing and suggestive of greater efficiency as a craft (there's the old adage: if it looks right, it probably is right). Again, compare the Sopwith biplane to the P51 Mustang. Which one is the product of a more refined design with greater intrinsic understanding of aerodynamics?

Or compare an F-104 Starfighter, with its simple-looking exhaust pipe at the back and its tubular airframe, with the thrust vectoring nozzles and blended wing-body airframe of the F-22 today. The F-22 is so much more advanced that it not only combines radar return reduction features into its airframe that surpass the F-117, but it can do that and still be airworthy, while the Starfighter not only cannot do that, but dates from a time before it was even thought that radar reduction measures were possible!

And finally, artistic merit. Even ignoring all of the above, the Sarajevo just looks out of place. The design is simply too different! I don't object to the idea that Earth may have a few odd ball designs, a few successful experimental ships that went on to see regular service, or a few one-off ship designs built in between larger classes, but the Sarajevo is really taking it to extremes.

I think it's far more reasonable to suggest an extra-terrestrial origin.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Still looks Earthican to me. The design seems retro, more Buck Rogers. The "internal nacelles" while they might be more protected, may not be as efficient. Given this ship is used with in Earth's borders implies its not at the same level of advancement as an NX. And function would seem to be a better indicator of sophistication than appearence.

 

[Kirby]

I seems to me that the OP is just going on the outter hull design. Do we even know that the ship is even warp capable? I don't remember this ship from the show, but as someone above mentioned if it operates only within Earth's solar system maybe it's just an impulse drive ship.

The design is certainly strange for starfleet, maybe it was designed as some sort of civilian transport.

 

[Dukhat]

John Eaves designed the ship. He referred to it as a "Starfleet Observation Vessel," or something like that. He clearly meant it to be an Earth ship. The reason why you think it might look alien is that Eaves's ship designs tend to have similar attributes no matter the organization/race, or time period. That's just his style.

 

[Timo]

Do we even know that the ship is even warp capable?

We see her in "Daedalus", carrying personnel and equipment to an area known as the Barrens, with no star systems within a hundred lightyears. A transporter technology experiment was to be performed there, supposedly taking advantage of the emptiness - so even though it is not explicitly said, it appears that the Sarajevo and the Enterprise were deep inside the Barrens, if not in the actual middle.

That calls for significant interstellar range and speed. The Enterprise seems to have gotten a few hundred lightyears away from Earth at best during her meandering first two years, and spent months reaching the Delphic Expanse. Yet here the Sarajevo has reached an exotic area of space (not to be found anywhere near Earth in the real world, although we don't know if such things would be close to Earth in the Trek world) and flown fairly deep into it, without her passengers growing old or even bored. Her warp capabilities thus seem roughly comparable to those of the NX class.

A possible competing project for advanced Earth vessels? One utilizing alien propulsion technologies even if constructed on Earth, and thus in political disfavor and of lesser importance than the NX project?

The other possibility is that the ship took ages to span the distance between Earth and the Barrens. Her passenger was certainly determined enough to endure the hardships of such a journey.

[Edit: Since the ship in fact was only seen ferrying the guest stars away from the Barrens, to Earth, my original theory doesn't really mesh too well. So here's another...]

We don't know if the Sarajevo really reached the Barrens, to be sure. All we know is that the Enterprise reached that location, performed the experiments, and then rendezvoused with the Sarajevo. The rendezvous might have happened on Earth's doorstep for all we know; Archer could have turned towards new deep space adventures as soon as he could meet with a lesser Earth vessel, and this quaint vessel with the inferior inboard warp drive happened to be it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MANT!]

Or simply that the designer thought it looked cwel..and the episode writers weren't too concerned with apparent distances and travel times...

 

[Marten]

All earth ships can't be exactly the same.