The Romulan Temporal Assessment Group

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Christopher's DTI novels mention the Romulan Temporal Assessment Group, one of the Temporal Accordists. Is the organization civilian like DTI, or is it military, given that Romulan society is more of a police state?

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

I actually borrowed the TAG from the Last Unicorn Games Star Trek Time Travel Sourcebook. According to it, the TAG is a division of the Tal Shiar. I guess that makes it military intelligence.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I actually borrowed the TAG from the Last Unicorn Games Star Trek Time Travel Sourcebook. According to it, the TAG is a division of the Tal Shiar. I guess that makes it military intelligence.

Thanks!

--Sran

 

[Sci]

I actually borrowed the TAG from the Last Unicorn Games Star Trek Time Travel Sourcebook. According to it, the TAG is a division of the Tal Shiar. I guess that makes it military intelligence.

I was under the impression that the Tal Shiar is not part of the Romulan Imperial Fleet -- it's basically the Stasi to the Imperial Fleet's Nationale Volksarmee. So legally non-military, I thought.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^It's not entirely clear. The Tal Shiar uses a military ranking system (army-based) and also recruits operatives from the Imperial Romulan Fleet, which uses a naval ranking system. This suggests that the organization is some type of military intelligence, though their exact place within the military (and relationship with organizations such as the Tal Diann) is unclear.

A character like Revad may hold the rank of either colonel or commander (equivalent to a Starfleet captain), or he may have no title at all beyond agent.

--Sran

 

[Christopher]

I was thinking of how Deanna in "Face of the Enemy," while undercover as a Tal Shiar agent, wore a military uniform with an extra black strap to denote the TS. Why would there be a Tal Shiar variant of the military uniform if it weren't part of the military?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I was thinking of how Deanna in "Face of the Enemy," while undercover as a Tal Shiar agent, wore a military uniform with an extra black strap to denote the TS. Why would there be a Tal Shiar variant of the military uniform if it weren't part of the military?

Maybe the Tal Shiar has a mandate that lets it insert itself into other organizations as and when required? This is a military setting or military operation requiring Tal Shiar oversight? - now we're military officers, actually a part of your unit (though one would be wise to note the black strap, yes? Officially I'm just part of your circle, unofficially I'm more important than that and you'd better tread carefully). Perhaps they gain the access and other benefits that come with being officially a part of whatever institution they're working with while, unofficially, retaining pull and influence they "shouldn't" have because people rightly fear the Tal Shiar?

Some form of legal bullshittery that works in their favour in the wider Empire.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I was thinking of how Deanna in "Face of the Enemy," while undercover as a Tal Shiar agent, wore a military uniform with an extra black strap to denote the TS. Why would there be a Tal Shiar variant of the military uniform if it weren't part of the military?

And Colonel Lovok, too (assuming the real one held the same rank as the Changeling who replaced him). There's also the Romulan Commander played by Judson Scott from "Message in a Bottle," who either was a Tal Shair operative or was at least working with them.

--Sran

 

[Timo]

The analogy to military or civilian intelligence might not be clear-cut, though. Rather, the Tal'shiar could fill a role similar to the political officers of the former USSR, with decided authority over the military, certain lip service to the uniforms and ranks of the military, and nevertheless a civilian base of power.

This would not be a particularly close analogy, either, but possibly a necessary diversification of the more usual analogies... These people are aliens, after all. Then again, they are also pseudo-Romans in some ways, and Rome in most of its eras was famous for its blurred lines between military and civilian organizations and command relationships.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[voyager1]

I always saw them more like the SS of Germany under Hitler.

 

[Idran]

The SS wasn't an intelligence organization at all, though, was it? As far as I understood, the SS was just a paramilitary group that never performed any foreign intelligence operations; that those were wholly the purview of the SD or the Abwehr.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Some of the novels (not every author seems to know/care about establishing this consistent nomenclature but I know at least David R. George III does) refer to the Romulan military that we primarily see as the Romulan Imperial Fleet. This could mean that Imperial Fleet is one branch of something overarching presumably named the Romulan Military, of which the Tal Shiar is a sister branch to the Imperial Fleet. TNG - "Unification II" refers to Proconsul Neral as having served in the Romulan Guard, which could be an alternative term for the Imperial Fleet or another branch.

 

[voyager1]

The SS wasn't an intelligence organization at all, though, was it? As far as I understood, the SS was just a paramilitary group that never performed any foreign intelligence operations; that those were wholly the purview of the SD or the Abwehr.

True, but the Tal Shiar was described of dragging people out of houses for not conforming to what the government did or wanted in the TNG ep Face of The Enemy. I guess a better analogy would be a cross between the SS and a government intelligence agency. I never got the impression the Tal Shiar was military though they did do military actions and operations.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Some of the novels (not every author seems to know/care about establishing this consistent nomenclature but I know at least David R. George III does) refer to the Romulan military that we primarily see as the Romulan Imperial Fleet. This could mean that Imperial Fleet is one branch of something overarching presumably named the Romulan Military, of which the Tal Shiar is a sister branch to the Imperial Fleet. TNG - "Unification II" refers to Proconsul Neral as having served in the Romulan Guard, which could be an alternative term for the Imperial Fleet or another branch.

If I remember correctly, all Romulans are required to participate in some form of military service. Neral's line is probably a reference to said service, most likely in the Imperial Fleet.

--Sran

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Some of the novels (not every author seems to know/care about establishing this consistent nomenclature but I know at least David R. George III does) refer to the Romulan military that we primarily see as the Romulan Imperial Fleet. This could mean that Imperial Fleet is one branch of something overarching presumably named the Romulan Military, of which the Tal Shiar is a sister branch to the Imperial Fleet. TNG - "Unification II" refers to Proconsul Neral as having served in the Romulan Guard, which could be an alternative term for the Imperial Fleet or another branch.

I always thought the Tal Shiar was shown as having a rank system because of the inevitable comparison to the KGB.

 

[Idran]

You might be right, but that's an out-of-universe thing; they're talking about the position of the Tal Shiar within the setting, without an external perspective.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Ah. I see. Well it would probably fulfill the same function, then; in-universe, the government gives the Tal Shiar a rank system so that it can infiltrate the military and even seize command of starships or troop divisions if necessary.