• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Pegasus

USS Triumphant

Vice Admiral
Admiral
If he needed Will Riker, why didn't Admiral Pressman just get Tom Riker to help him? They both had the experience with the Pegasus, and it seems like getting Tom - who was probably less likely to have changed - and a ship already near Earth (Crazy Horse, maybe) would have been much easier than getting transport to the Enterprise.
 
He needed the 1st officer of the Enterprise, so he had some command pull in the likely event of another senior staff mutiny situation. He expected for Will to back him. He went to the Enterprise expecting to have a ranking ally there

I'm actually of the belief that Pressman is not speaking boastfully. He partly made Riker, the star of Starfleet, who skyrocketed up the ranks, through 1st covering up the mutiny, and then through glowing recommendations
 
1. It would have made too much sense.

2. We wouldn't have gotten to see Terry O'Quinn.
 
Tom's not an XO though. He'd have no pull in the command structure of a Starfleet ship. That's what Pressman needed

I wonder how things would've gone if Riker had already been a captain of his own ship, like he'd turned down. Certainly Pressman would've jumped on that deal
 
If Tom had been command rank, we never would have gotten the Pegasus episode, and by extension, we never would have gotten ENT: These Are the Voyages.
 
Tom probably SHOULD have been of command rank (at least Lt. Cmdr) if Starfleet awarded him time-in-rank promotions for the time he was stuck at the outpost. But I guess we know from Ensign Kim that Starfleet just doesn't do that. :rolleyes:

A Lt. Cmdr Tom Riker could have been given mission command of a Defiant-Class - which would have also made more sense, given that Starfleet had recent experience with a cloak being adapted to that ship type.

And yes, I know all the meta reasons - we wouldn't have seen the episode, etc - but it just seems to me that in-story, it doesn't make sense. And that ENT:TATV thing sounds like a prime selling point for doing it the way I describe, to me! ;)
 
Actually, Tom probably should have received promotion to Lt. Cmdr. out of fairness, given that Will's promotion to that rank was in recognition of his actions on that very planet, prior to the transporter duplication. Tom has just as much claim to those actions as Will, and of course paid a heftier price.

As to your idea though, it appears he's only in the operations track at that point. No command credentials to merit any kind of command

And as to what might've happened if Will had already been given his own ship, well hypothetically, I doubt he'd have had the balls to oust Pressman the way Picard did, but realistically, if Riker had taken the Melbourne or the Drake, he'd be dead by now, and if he'd taken the Aries (which he should have) he'd probably have been too far out in deep space to be of immediate use
 
In a retcon sort of way, it makes it look like Will was subconsciously turning down promotion to captain out of guilt for having risen to his rank on the coattails of a death filled mutiny, and only takes command after coming to grips over it, with help from his wife/counselor.
 
In a retcon sort of way, it makes it look like Will was subconsciously turning down promotion to captain out of guilt for having risen to his rank on the coattails of a death filled mutiny, and only takes command after coming to grips over it, with help from his wife/counselor.
Hmmm. This, I think, is an excellent point.
 
If he needed Will Riker, why didn't Admiral Pressman just get Tom Riker to help him? They both had the experience with the Pegasus, and it seems like getting Tom - who was probably less likely to have changed - and a ship already near Earth (Crazy Horse, maybe) would have been much easier than getting transport to the Enterprise.

Pressman may not have known that Tom Riker even existed at the time.
 
This is a very strong "Riker" episode, but I always hated it when STARFLEET was made out to be crooked, in some way ... I was under the impression that this organisation was meant to represent the best of Humanity. When you see it involved in these shady dealings, it only makes it harder to buy into that, when it was never all that plausible to begin with, but you accepted it because that's the thrust of the show.
 
Honestly, I rather like that they showed some of the people as flawed like that. And it was a good (possibly unintentional) foreshadowing of Section 31.
 
Because Tom Riker was created in a different episode. Thus, in this episode he did not exist.

And besides, it was his destiny.
 
This is a very strong "Riker" episode, but I always hated it when STARFLEET was made out to be crooked, in some way ... I was under the impression that this organisation was meant to represent the best of Humanity. When you see it involved in these shady dealings, it only makes it harder to buy into that, when it was never all that plausible to begin with, but you accepted it because that's the thrust of the show.
Admirals have trumped up charges against Picard, attempted to appropriate Data's daughter, committed treason against the entire Federation, & conspired to assassinate the Federation president, all before we met Pressman. It's not like secretly ignoring a treaty is any worse

Society has evolved magnificently, but Humans are just still humans. That's a thread that has always run through Star Trek, & made for some of the best episodes, imho. Pressman is clearly guilty, and to blame for some awful misfortune. Plus, it appeared that the head of Starfleet security might be implicated, but that's hardly an indictment of the entire institutional body
 
55225381.jpg
 
This is a very strong "Riker" episode, but I always hated it when STARFLEET was made out to be crooked, in some way ... I was under the impression that this organisation was meant to represent the best of Humanity. When you see it involved in these shady dealings, it only makes it harder to buy into that, when it was never all that plausible to begin with, but you accepted it because that's the thrust of the show.
But, hasn't Starfleet been portrayed as a bunch of crooked and incompetent fools since TOS? It kind of comes with the territory.
 
In The Original Series, STARFLEET was never shown as being "crooked," that I can remember. However, it was shown to be bureaucratic, overly concerned with the pomp and circumstance of diplomacy and out of touch with what was happening with its vessels out on the edge of The Frontier, particularly the ENTERPRISE. Otherwise, I found them to be officious, but generally upstanding.

The Next Generation, on the other hand, wasn't satisfied with this portrayal of STARFLEET, preferring to show it as suffering from a sovereign case of The Emperor's New Clothes. I know that there are alot of fans out there who prefer the perceived realism of a flawed organisation that requires vigillance to set to rights. Maybe that's more entertaining, I don't know if it is. I just know that I liked the idea of there finally being a Do-Gooder Institution that wasn't corrupted by its own power. I thought it made STAR TREK transend other space shows. And I feel that TNG did manage to do that, for the most part. But having so many bad apples falling from up high kind of leaves me cold, when I'd rather see the bad apples without Federation membership causing drama.
 
Did Picard make a strategic blunder at the end of the episode? Did his own pompous self-righteousness get the better of him?

The Next Generation, on the other hand, wasn't satisfied with this portrayal of STARFLEET, preferring to show it as suffering from a sovereign case of The Emperor's New Clothes. I know that there are alot of fans out there who prefer the perceived realism of a flawed organisation that requires vigillance to set to rights. Maybe that's more entertaining, I don't know if it is. I just know that I liked the idea of there finally being a Do-Gooder Institution that wasn't corrupted by its own power. I thought it made STAR TREK transend other space shows. And I feel that TNG did manage to do that, for the most part. But having so many bad apples falling from up high kind of leaves me cold, when I'd rather see the bad apples without Federation membership causing drama.
That is a good description of the TNG series. I felt that there was a moral superiority vibe given off by the crew of the TNG Enterprise. I didn't particularly like it. It came across as snobbish and obnoxious. Coincidentally, the ending of the Pegasus episode encapsulated this.

Back to Picard's self-righteousness.

I was bothered by Picard's decision to let the Romulans in on the Pegasus' successful implementation of its phased cloaking device. I didn't like his admission to the Romulans that the Federation was in violation of the no-cloak-for-the-Feds treaty either.

First of all, Picard's admission sounded like an apology, "we violated the no-cloak treaty. please forgive us. we won't do it again. and by the way, we are going to throw the book at the guy who cheated on the treaty." Of course, Picard didn't use those words, but that is essentially what it sounded like. It was lame and it made Starfleet look weak.

But Picard's holier-than-thou attitude and decision were all that mattered to him. His harsh words to Pressman sounded like a scolding. It was Picard at his pompous and do-gooder-ing worst.

As for Picard's decision being a possible blunder, I thought he should have handled it in a way that could have turned the situation into an advantage for the Feds.

If this phased cloaking technology could alter the balance of power between the Feds and the Romulans, why not warn the Romulan captain (since he had already witnessed the success of the Pegasus cloaking system) that the Feds were going to withdraw from the no-cloak-for-the-Feds-but-OK-for the-Romulans-to-cloak treaty. Then give the Romulan captain an alternative -- that the Feds would be willing to renegotiate the treaty that would prohibit both sides from deploying any phased cloaking technology.

That way the Feds, with their successful demonstration of the phased cloaking system, could actually gain something from the Romulans.

Also, what did Picard think the Romulans would take from his apology anyway? Did he think that the Romulan ship would go back home and report to their senate that Starfleet is sorry for violating the treaty but promised never to do it again? And that settles that. No harm, no foul.

Of course not, the success of the Pegasus cloak would only encourage the Romulans to develop and employ phased cloaking systems for their ships. When you see that your enemy has acquired advanced technology that you don't have, you would feel a need to match them, regardless of what they might say about treaty violations. You know they have it and that makes you feel a need to keep up on the arms race.

Picard may think that he is a better man, an incorruptible one, unlike Pressman. But his self-righteousness prevented him from making a better decision in this situation.
 
The Romulans are already working on phasing cloak tech prior to the events in The Pegasus. I have to back Picard's call to expose the truth, firstly because it's the truth. Secondly, to not come forward risks a cover up being developed, a cover up which almost certainly would involve pretending the Enterprise never got out of that asteroid, meaning quite possibly the ship getting mothballed, the crew getting broken up, and maybe even sequestered. You can't have them roaming about when they should all be dead in an asteroid

Thirdly, making that treaty (& protecting or salvaging it) may be necessary because Starfleet NOT actively engaging in an arms race could be the only thing preventing all out war. The Romulans had cloaking tech before the UFP. Any attempt by the UFP to develop such tactical tech to compete, (Initiating the arms race) is clearly a declaration of animosity. Saying by action that you refuse to let them have a weapon which you do not also possess can only mean one thing. You are our enemy.

That treaty gives them the political leverage to say they support peaceable relations. You don't give up political leverage to Romulans. It's exactly what they want. That's why I think they made that treaty. They get to hold the moral high ground, which is why other races, like Klingons have their back. You can trust the UFP, even if a jerk or two slip up from time to time. You blast it out of the water, & keep trying to hold your moral ground
 
My view on the OP's question about using Tom Riker instead of William is that it wouldn't have made a difference either way. What happens on Pegasus happened before Riker's accident that split him into two people.

In saying that, Riker's regrets, second guessing and views of what happened on Pegasus would have been the same in both William and Tom, thus the final outcome would have remained the same. Having a higher rank or not wouldn't have made a difference in this regard. Beyond having different experiences in life after the accident, their way of thinking, their own principles and such were still the same.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top