THE OFFICE (US) observations...

[comicbookwriter]

This is a discussion for those who regularly watch the U.S. version of THE OFFICE and have some insight into the characters. I guess there might be SPOILERS if people care enough...
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As of yesterday, I have seen every episode of the Steve Carrell version of THE OFFICE (thanks Netflix and NBC.com) and I had some things to say about the show:

a) Brilliant writing and very good acting across the board. I was particularly stunned by Stanley's tearing down of Michael in the episode "Did I Stutter?" Wow, I was scared by his ferocity and I don't know how Steve Carrell made it through that scene. Great stuff.

Rainn Wilson is also very, very good in his role as Dwight. If this was the 1970s, Dwight Schrute would have easily become an iconic character along the lines of J.J. from GOOD TIMES or Michael Stivic from ALL IN THE FAMILY.

b) Almost lifelike situations. Despite this being a fictional show, much of the humor comes from dealing with extremely foolish bosses who believe they are doing the right thing.

c) My only real problem with the series is that the characters (outside of Michael and Dwight) are very mean and hypocritical, especially Pam and Jim who are supposed to be the "normal folks" on the show.

I really didn't like Jim or Pam throughout most of the series because I believe they think they are somehow "better" than Michael or Dwight when in reality they are every bit as human and mediocre as everyone else in the office.

I don't mind the zany characters like Creed, Toby, Angela, and the rest because they add spice to the scenes, but whenever Jim starts talking and making fun of others I just got turned off quickly. I even like the warehouse staff more than I like Jim and Pam.

d) Where does the show go now? I am wondering this because unless they make some changes in staff or overall situations; like moving to a new location or having new office politics in play (Jim is promoted and Michael and Jim have to share power) I can't see how many more episodes can be constructed around Michael being a complete idiot in management and everyone else suffering under his reign.

It's worked for 5 seasons, but there needs to be some freshening up of the writing style or else it could get boring soon (i.e. Married With Children, Malcolm in the Middle, Dharma and Greg).

What do you guys think of the show?

CBW

 

[T'Bonz]

My only real problem with the series is that the characters (outside of Michael and Dwight) are very mean and hypocritical

You've got to be joking. Michael and Dwight are the worst.

The entire office is dysfunctional (and it makes for a funny show,) but Michael is a coward, mean and dumb. Dwight is an opportunist and an ass-kisser. He'd have made a great Nazi.

 

[species5618]

Dwight is an opportunist and an ass-kisser. He'd have made a great Nazi.

Well, Dwight is of German heritage and he mentioned that his grandfather fought in WW2 and killed 20 men before he ended up in an Allied prison camp. He's still alive at the age of 103, living in Argentina, but Dwight's attempt to visit him there was halted when his travel visa was protested by the Shoah foundation.

Sounds like it runs in his family.

 

[Mr Light]

Wow. I have a really hard time seeing Jim and Pam as mean and hypocritical. All the horrible things that Michael and Dwight do to them, in practically every single episode???? Sometimes Jim's pranks are way too time-intensive, but that's about it. While they do a good job of explaining where Michael and Dwight are coming from, they're still pretty much unforgivable.

 

[Samurai8472]

b) Almost lifelike situations. Despite this being a fictional show, much of the humor comes from dealing with extremely foolish bosses who believe they are doing the right thing.

I don't hear about alot of bosses going all "Survivorman" and eating poisonous mushrooms

 

[comicbookwriter]

Wow. I have a really hard time seeing Jim and Pam as mean and hypocritical. All the horrible things that Michael and Dwight do to them, in practically every single episode???? Sometimes Jim's pranks are way too time-intensive, but that's about it. While they do a good job of explaining where Michael and Dwight are coming from, they're still pretty much unforgivable.

I can't believe people are defending the rest of the office staff because they sit there and act like they are so superior to Michael instead of simply trying to make the workplace better by doing things behind his back. They are totally reactionary and not proactive.

Jim and Pam annoy the living hell out of me because Pam has become way too assertive whenever Jim does something she doesn't like and if you look at it from the long term, Jim was flirting with a woman who was engaged to be married and Pam led him on even though she was on the cusp of getting married.

Not only that, they seem to have this "we are smarter and better than everyone else" attitude when it's clear that Pam can't cut it in the world outside of the office -- Jim had many chances to leave but kept coming back because corporate made him or he wanted to be with Pam. It sucks that these characters had to date at work, to me, that's one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas.

The reason I like Michael so much is because even though he is an idiot, a fool, and somewhat cowardly, everything he does is from a very honest and well-meaning place. He is a lovable fool who does more damage when he sets out to correct the world. I love the farce of this.

Dwight is far more devious and borderline evil, and still a major fool, and that to me makes him endearing. At least he is being true to his impulses.

I didn't like Stanley until he unloaded on Michael in "Did I Stutter?" because I wasn't sure if the actor had any chops until I saw that episode.

And the reason I said THE OFFICE feels realistic is because my brief time working in an office environment was very similar in terms of kiss-asses, people sleeping together, a boss disconnected from reality, weirdos who somehow kept their jobs when they should clearly have been fired, and a lot of self-loathing.

Michael is an interesting character because all he wants is people to like him but all he does is make himself more lonely because of his lack of social skills. He is an offensive person who does offensive things because he is alone and doesn't know how to behave around people. Also, he is surrounded by people who are also somewhat socially retarded so that doesn't help matters.

That's just my take on it.

CBW

 

[Scout101]

Michael just goes too far sometimes. NO ONE is THAT stupid, and in far too many episodes, he goes from the loveable idiot to just cringeworthy crap that you want to fast forward through...

 

[Mr Light]

Jim and Pam were just friends Besides she was in a loveless engagement with an asshole who she clearly just comprised on out of loneliness and because he was her high school sweetheart, a man who didn't really care for her or know anything about her. And whenever Jim would cross the line she would shut him down cold, until she broke it off with him. Jim and Pam; destined soul mates!

 

[I Grok Spock]

I love the early seasons of this show, when it truly felt like a documentary of the quiet desperation of office workers. However, like Seinfeld before it, the situations have become ever more zany and over-the-top, while characters have become caricatures defined only by their popular quirk or catchphrase. For example, compare the season 2 episode where Ryan burns his cheese pita and this week's episode with Dwight setting fire to the office. I don't see how he could possibly, in any remote facsimile of a real world, still have his job after what he did and his actions following.

One thing I've always liked about the character of Michael was that under the incompetence and cowardice he truly seems to think of his employees as his family. For example, he was the only one of Pam's coworkers to come to her art show, and his genuine reaction to her sketch of their office building is one of the show's great moments. Dwight, however has degenerated from a much more nuanced portrayal (bizarre antics yes, yet still ultimately a skilled salesman, and in rare moments a decent person) to nearly a one-note cliché.

Ultimately, I still enjoy the show more than not, and a few episodes this year (e.g. "The Surplus") have show something of a return to form.

I recommend the UK version as well. Aside from a few missed cultural references and the occasional need for subtitles, it's just as enjoyable (though the characters are far less sympathetic). Plus with just two short "series" and a Christmas special finale, it never looses its grip on its sense of realism.

 

[Kryton]

David Brent's video for "If You Don't Know Me By Now" on the Christmas Special DVD makes me convulse with laughter every time. He sings like he's been constipated for a month and it's just now "working itself out".

 

[comicbookwriter]

One thing I've always liked about the character of Michael was that under the incompetence and cowardice he truly seems to think of his employees as his family. For example, he was the only one of Pam's coworkers to come to her art show, and his genuine reaction to her sketch of their office building is one of the show's great moments.

EXACTLY.

That was one of the best moments I have seen on a show. Underneath all his stupidity is a lot of heart. A foolish heart, yes, but he genuinely cares about his staff.

This is why I like his character.

CBW

 

[I Grok Spock]

David Brent's video for "If You Don't Know Me By Now" on the Christmas Special DVD makes me convulse with laughter every time. He sings like he's been constipated for a month and it's just now "working itself out".

"Free love on the free love freeway
The love is free and the freeway is long..."

I have that and the "If You Don't Know Me" on my iPod.

"I've poured a glass of your favorite wine: Cabernet Sauvignon. I really know you..."

 

[Dude]

My only real problem with the series is that the characters (outside of Michael and Dwight) are very mean and hypocritical, especially Pam and Jim who are supposed to be the "normal folks" on the show.

Actually, outside of Michael and Dwight, I'm pretty sure I've met every one of the characters on that show. I think that's intentional, the writers created a group of characters that matched well-known stereotypes. They're just exagerated for effect. Real people are a little hypocritical and have the occasional mean-streak. Jim is the decent guy who sometimes does mean things or screws things up because he's not fully self-aware.

Two of the best moments on the show for me were when Michael found the complaints to corporate on Jim made by Dwight in Toby's desk and tried to resolve all of them. Michael sits them down in the conference room and reads each prank that Jim's pulled off, one by one. Cut to Jim being interviewed and he says, dumbfounded, "when you put them all together like that, I do sound mean."

That would be a "real office" moment where the "good guy" is suddenly shown to be the actual problem in a bad relationship.

The other one is when Jim is in charge for a couple of days and decides to combine all the birthday and special parties into one party a month. Everybody is unhappy and it goes poorly. Michael comes back, Jim explains what happened, Jim is upset at how badly it all turned out. Michael is eating some cake and laughs at Jim and, never even turning to look at him, says "yeah, I made that mistake when I was a new manager, too." Jim looks shocked.

This is another "real office" moment where a young manager who looks down his nose at his boss suddenly realizes that his boss really does have reasons for why he does certain things.

 

[Shatmandu]

The other day, I heard someone say they think Casey Anthony is completely and totally innocent in the death of her child.

And now today, I see someone who identifies with Michael Scott and derides Jim and Pam and the rest.

It just proves that in the hand of life, someone's got to be the pinkie.

Joe, stinkie

 

[Chess Piece Face]

It's a great show. Not as great as the original, but great in its own way. I only have 3 problems with it:

1 Whenever they have hour long episodes, the "funny" just doesn't seem to be there.

2 Michael is a great character but when he goes beyond credibility for even him, it's just not great and turns you off. Example - the way he acted at Phylis' wedding. Not even Michael Scott would be like that.

3 Pam is a bitch and a complete loser. She doesn't deserve Jim. She was engaged to an idiot and led Jim on. In on episode she even said it would be nice to see Jim and Roy fight over her. She failed at school. She was way overbearing in the "copier vs new chairs" debate. Jim is cool, a nice guy, he has made sacrifices for her and he has had better options. Also, he is a winner in the sense that he could clearly move up and out of the office and she has proven she cannot.

In the original office, I rooted for those characters. In this one, I wish Pam would get her comeuppance.

 

[comicbookwriter]

3 Pam is a bitch and a complete loser. She doesn't deserve Jim. She was engaged to an idiot and led Jim on. In on episode she even said it would be nice to see Jim and Roy fight over her. She failed at school. She was way overbearing in the "copier vs new chairs" debate. Jim is cool, a nice guy, he has made sacrifices for her and he has had better options. Also, he is a winner in the sense that he could clearly move up and out of the office and she has proven she cannot.

In the original office, I rooted for those characters. In this one, I wish Pam would get her comeuppance.

THANK YOU!

I was thinking back to the episode where Jan came down from corporate to meet with the women of Scranton and Pam kept making excuses as to why she couldn't do the graphic design program in the summertime and Jan told her outright that sometimes you can't keep making excuses for not doing things.

That was a classic moment because it revealed Pam as an underachiever and goes back to my point that Pam (and IMHO Jim too) are not the sweet, gentle, normal people who always feel like they are somehow superior to Michael.

And BTW, I wasn't "defending" or "identifying" with Michael, I just believe that the people around him are far too critical and don't do enough to patiently explain his foibles to him.

CBW

 

[Mr Light]

Aside from accepting her lot in life and not reaching for something more I don't see anything wrong with Pam. At worst I'd say that sometimes her teasing with Jim could be misinterpreted. She basically got shat on for the first three years of the show and now she' just showing some backbone because she's happy and confident.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

Aside from accepting her lot in life and not reaching for something more I don't see anything wrong with Pam. At worst I'd say that sometimes her teasing with Jim could be misinterpreted. She basically got shat on for the first three years of the show and now she' just showing some backbone because she's happy and confident.

She basically got shat on because she chose to be with an asshole - AND the whole time she was the one shitting on Jim.

That's what's wrong with her, and it's a lot worse than simple underachieving.

 

[Spot's Meow]

I have only been working in an office for about 4 months, but sadly nearly all of the things that happen on the show have happened in real life. Last week we had to evacuate the entire building because someone burned a cup in the microwave. And just today we got emails from the head of the Social Committee about possibly doing birthdays quarterly, celebrating all of them for the past 3 months at once...and then the reply emails about how it should be monthly, and how one person in the office loves baking and will bake the cakes...and then everyone arguing over which cake to make because it was their favorite...


There's even a Creed, and a Jim, and all the others...though there is no Michael, thank god. I actually have a great boss.

So sadly the show is actually pretty realistic, though sometimes it goes over the top. Dwight SO would have been fired for what he did (unless it was a government job, where I have never seen anyone get fired for anything, even when they do absolutely no work).

I used to like Jim and Pam more, but I certainly don't dislike them now. It's kind of weird, them being together. I like it but I don't at the same time. I don't think that they are mean; I think that sometimes they make mistakes or go overboard because they are human. They can't be perfect. But their mistakes don't even compare to Michael's. He fucks things up royally, and yes sometimes you feel that he had good intentions and you feel bad for him, but other times he just seems like a completely idiotic asshole. So really my feelings about him go back and forth. He does something sweet, like support Pam's art, and then he does something shitty, like be a jerk to Toby or give away the info on that family paper business a couple of weeks ago.

Dwight I like, because he is just weird. And he is like the outrageous version of his stereotype. I know people like him, but not as extreme because social conventions won't allow it, but you feel that if it was their choice they would be acting just like Dwight.

Angela is another tough character to make a decision on. She used to be one of my favorites because of her orderliness and love of cats, both of which I relate to very well, but since the whole cheating thing I don't know what to think of her. Obviously my opinion of her has diminished, but honestly I feel like it's something her character never would have really done. I don't think the Angela type would really cheat like that.

Those are some of my thoughts...

 

[J.T.B.]

3 Pam is a bitch and a complete loser. She doesn't deserve Jim. She was engaged to an idiot and led Jim on. In on episode she even said it would be nice to see Jim and Roy fight over her. She failed at school. She was way overbearing in the "copier vs new chairs" debate. Jim is cool, a nice guy, he has made sacrifices for her and he has had better options. Also, he is a winner in the sense that he could clearly move up and out of the office and she has proven she cannot.

In the original office, I rooted for those characters. In this one, I wish Pam would get her comeuppance.

Couldn't most of those things also be said about Dawn?

From a storytelling point of view, with over-the-top characters like Michael and Dwight, you need some down to earth characters that can remind the viewer that it's supposed to be real life, not some absurdist farce. When Jim and/or Pam react to Michael's bizarre-ness, it may seem condescending, but most of us would react that way to someone acting so ridiculous, and the audience can identify with that. If all the characters went along with Michael like he's just a good ol' guy, it would be a very different kind of show.

I am personally not a big fan of the Michael Scott character. It's like they tried too hard to make him outrageous and offensive. I find it much easier to sympathize with David Brent than Michael. David isn't simply oblivious, he just wants to be liked so bad that he's constantly thinking of how to make himself look cool or funny, and that blinds him to most everything else. Michael is simply tone-deaf to all social situations. I just wouldn't feel for Michael the way I did David in the "please don't make me redundant scene," which I found very moving.

But, I have friends who say just the opposite, that they can sympathize with Michael but not with David. Maybe it comes down to which show you saw first?

--Justin