Spoilers The Never Ending Sacrifice - Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Idoliside, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    I certainly didn't find it intolerable. There were only two clear "iterations", anyway, and I thought the narrative style was still very "humanlike."
     
  2. KingstonTrekker

    KingstonTrekker Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Location:
    Kingston, Ontario, Canada
    I have been a very vocal critic of the past several books in the DS9 Relaunch. However, I LOVED this book! I was so happy to read a DS9-related story that was not mired in the Mirror Universe, did not involve the horrible character Iliana Ghemor, did not mention any Ascendants, did not feature a brainwashed Jem'Hadar soldier, etc. etc.

    This book was an engaging story with wonderful characters and terrific writing. I enjoyed it immensely.
     
  3. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    I hope not! :)
     
  4. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    Nerys Ghemor, thank you for this marvellous review, and my apologies that it's taken a few days to get back to you.

    I know exactly what it's like to have a very strongly imagined sense of a world and its people, and so I'm particularly grateful that you were willing to take my vision of things on its own terms for the purposes of reading TNES. (I'm not so generous: you should have seen how cross I was coming out of Peter Jackson's The Two Towers!) In fact, I've never read Les Miserables, so if I was channelling it, it was wholly unintentional. I did pick up a copy yesterday while I was in town, so thank you for pointing me in that direction.

    I'm glad you liked the characterizations of Tekeny Ghemor and Tora Ziyal. They are both extremely appealing characters, particularly in the way that they don't sign up to the chauvinism that I imagine being so tragically prevalent in Cardassian society. (One of things I like best about "Second Skin" is that Ghemor continues to help Kira even when it becomes clear that there's no blood relation. And, IMHO, it's both to Ziyal's credit and her tragedy that she is able to love her father non-judgementally.)

    You have absolutely got my intention that is meant to be a reworking of the other Never-Ending Sacrifice (hmm, I appear to have fanficced a book that doesn't exist!): that this is meant to represent a breaking of that cycle of abuse. (As an aside, this was why I decided not to make Proka Migdal abusive, although I completely see how that characterization can work, and indeed I um-ed and ah-ed about it in the early stages of writing.) Thank you for this.

    I'm extremely pleased that you enjoyed the story so much, and most of all that it was able to stand alongside your own vision of Cardassia, and not violate it any way. A very happy early birthday to you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  5. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    I'd LOVE to read a book about Michael Eddington.
     
  6. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    Frontier, thank you for your enthusiastic comments on the book! I'm really pleased you enjoyed it so much!

    He might still be a bit wary of Starfleet. Also, I don't think he's actually all that good at following orders.
     
  7. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    Steve Roby, thank you very much for your epic review! ;)

    I'm getting a bit anxious about the etiquette of posting multiple comments back to back, but thank to you everyone who has posted here about the book. It's very much appreciated.
     
  8. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    I felt it was only fair to accept your vision...after all, I'm just the fanficcer, no matter HOW strong my vision is. ;)

    Very cool that I could give you a recommendation. :) Mind you I've only seen the stage show and never read the book, so I'm not liable if the book sucks. ;)

    When it comes to my really long books, right now Dostoyevsky claims that place on my shelf. (Now I wonder...perhaps Bashir should've introduced Garak to human literature with Crime and Punishment instead of Shakespeare? Something tells me it might've gone over a little better, if Garak could make himself deal with the religious aspect long enough...) But based on having seen Les Mis, which had a definite impact on me, I definitely got that vibe.

    Oh, and here's one more song from the play that came to mind very strongly as I read your book--called "Empty Chairs and Empty Tables." I think it really speaks to the themes you were going for with the Detapa Council "revolution"...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Zb6EZ8Z4s

    I totally agree about "Second Skin"--that really shows you just how big Tekeny's heart is. :)

    As for Ziyal's attitude towards her father, though...that's always a tough one to call. I mean, she's a very big-hearted character, but also very naive and idealistic, and I'm not always sure she's got a good balance. That said, though, I still liked the character in the end. :)

    That's very cool to know that you did go back and forth on Proka--that makes me feel a little better about my own interpretation, which is that we never saw conclusive proof one way or the other, and I tend to fall on the other side of the debate, myself. I mean, to me, biting is a VERY extreme reaction at that age and one that suggested a very troubled youth--and I admit at first, when I read Rugal's memories of the incident, I found it a little hard to be convinced. But when you described the incident with Hulya, I found it easier to understand what you were thinking about Rugal.

    Thanks. :) And even if it HAD been in greater contradiction to the way I see things--the hard truth is that your version has official sanction and mine doesn't, no matter how attached I might be. ;)
     
  9. LightningStorm

    LightningStorm The Borg King Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Una,

    Triple+ posting in a row in a thread is frowned upon. Please use the Multi-Quote or Edit buttons for consolidation in the future.

    Thanks :)
     
  10. Aubergine

    Aubergine Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Hoorah, the book is now at ereader.com! Which means I have it and have now started reading. So far I like it a lot...
     
  11. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Location:
    Cardassia Prime
    I think Bashir should have introduced Garak to human literature with Jane Austen. The humour, the gossip, the frocks - Garak would love it.

    I'm glad that worked and, yes, it's a very extreme reaction and one I knew needed to be thought through carefully. I suspected that Rugal would have been the victim of violent bullying at school, which might be enough give him that hair-trigger response. But I do think that what we see is on screen open to both interpretations. And, of course, once the accusation of abuse is made, Sisko can't do anything other than investigate.

    LightningStorm: Wilco! Thank you! :)
     
  12. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    Hmm...on the Jane Austen bit, possibly. But I admit I don't have very fond memories at all of reading Austen, or anything by the Bronte sisters. Damn romance...and then teachers had the nerve to try and tell me the female characters are "liberated." :cardie:

    About the bullying, I kinda figure that unless Rugal was home-schooled, and some even then, that would've been a given. I think, though, that what troubled me worse was Rugal's statements about himself, especially when he spoke of his species as though it were a disease. It seemed like Dukat AND Proka had games they were playing with this kid and that's what bugged me when I watched that episode.

    I'm actually reminded of the Sean Goldman case that is currently going on, where a four-year-old boy was abducted by his mother and taken to Brazil against his father's wishes, the mother then divorces and says the father will never see his son again, and is now being raised in Brazil (still, even though the mother has now died) and made to not wish to return to the US. The Brazilian courts have just been...bad. All I can say is that Sean loses no matter what.

    Seriously, the father reminds me of Pa'Dar when I hear him talk. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528481,00.html

    But again, I think you had ample room for your interpretation. This is just interesting food for thought. :)
     
  13. Man of Steel

    Man of Steel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Finished the book. Wasn't good. Wasn't bad. It was so so.

    Didn't quite understand the end though.
     
  14. JAG

    JAG Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Location:
    JAG
    Finished it just recently, and truly enjoyed it. I was not sure about this one, but was going to read it anyway. It adds so many layers and expands on the species as a whole. I was never a huge fan of Cardassians, but now understand the concept of them much better.

    Una,
    I look forward to more books from you in the future.
     
  15. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2003
    Location:
    Germany
    What exactly?
     
  16. Technobuilder

    Technobuilder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I stayed up til 6am last night finishing The Never-Ending Sacrifice and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

    The whole time I was reading, I kept being reminded of A Stitch In Time and that's about the best praise I think anyone can give.

    I'm of the opinion that Proka Rugal should definately make another appearance.

    The very end of the book did kind of jump out at me, but because of the scene on Earth with Garak, I just assumed he'd found her and arranged for them to meet up.

    Quick Question...

    Do we have any idea who the Current Castellan of Cardassia is?
    It's been awhile and I keep thinking that something happens to Alon Ghemor at some point.

    Anyone mind clearing this issue up for me?

    Thanks for the great read Una. Looking forward to more of the same.
     
  17. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I haven't finished TNES yet, but in Destiny all they said was that it was a woman. I know some people (myself included) have been thinking that it might be Natima Lang.
     
  18. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    My guess is that Malyn Ocett is Ghemor's successor. She is a bit of a xenophobe, so the more isolationist, less Federation-friendly stance in 2381 fits her style. She was a member of the Directorate, yet "A Stitch in Time" also established she was shaken and strongly affected by Parmak and Ghemor's rhetoric. To me, it seems she'd be a natural to assume command of the government in the aftermath of the civil war post-Ghemor. She could reconcile the Directorate and Reunion parties, and her military background would appease the Directorate extremists, while Reunion leaders like Garak retain high-profile positions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  19. cml898

    cml898 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Just finished this novel. Great read! I've enjoyed every one of Una McCormack's Cardassian related works, and this was no exception. I always love the opportunity to revisit familiar events from a different perspective, and this one spanned practically the entire history of DS9. I was really impressed with Kotan's patience through the years of trying to get his son to accept him. A more typical story would have had him react in anger every time Rugal lashed out at him, but he never did and I was particularly impressed when he said basically "even if you hate me I'm glad you're alive to hate me." I was a little disappointed that the last line of the book was a question I wanted answered though, lol.
     
  20. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
    cml--GREAT point about Kotan's patience. Given that we have Proka Migdal portrayed here as a good guy (whatever you think of that choice), it was VERY wise of Ms. McCormack to make sure to show that Kotan was no demon, no matter how much Rugal hated being brought to Cardassia Prime. And to make us really feel for Kotan's wish to bring Rugal home, understand that what motivated him was love, even though things turned out badly.