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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter films?

Gaith

Vice Admiral
Admiral
No Avengers spoilers in this thread, please. Or, if you can help it, un-hidden Cap plot points/easter egg spoilers. :)

So I was tooling around on the computer, and made this for fun:

marvelcinematicuniverse.jpg



... Which got me thinking. There's been some talk recently, notably in an AV Club video bit titled "the future of mega-franchises", about whether there'll ever be another franchise project as large as HP.

You see where this is going.

Is it just me, or has the ambition of the MCU so far been rather under-appreciated? So far as I know, only one "cinematic universe" has really preceded it - that being the View Askewniverse - but those stories were haphazardly and tangentially connected at best. (There was a hint of something similar with X 1-3 followed by XMO:W, but the whole Origins thing is looking more and more like a one-off followed by an even farther one-off rather than as part of a cohesive whole, and I doubt even The Deadpool, if it gets made, would change that.)

Whereas, counting the in-production Avengers, the MCU is so far very much internally consistent (the recasting of Howard and Norton aside), and will probably beat HP's 8-movie numeric stretch with Captain America 2 in 2014 or '15.

Granted, the MCU films don't follow as narrow a band of characters as HP's, nor is there the same larger-than-movies effect of seeing child actors grow from pre-adolescent kids to young adults. Still, in one sense - that of putting huge and serious/well-respected actors main, supporting and side roles - it's doing just fine. So far, we have:

- Downey Jr.
- Bridges
- Norton
- William Hurt
- Rourke
- Hopkins
(Oh, how I wish I could add Branagh here... :p)
- Lee Jones
- Tucci
- Renner
- Ruffalo


... That's a hell of a list.



And, of course, the MCU is also totally unlike Potter in that it has no pre-determined length or endpoint. But still... anyone else just kinda in awe at the movie history being made here? And anyone care to guess at how long the MCU'll hang together before going totally haywire-continuity-wise, sinking into hopeless mediocrity, totally nuking the shark, being rebooted, or some combination of the above?

I suppose the biggest test will come whenever the original leads start to check out, as Downey may do post-IM3. Of course, they've already recast el Hulko, so that wouldn't necessarily stop things, but it could provide motivation for rebooting/continuity-splitting a character... which in turn might strain the internal coherence of the MCU as we know it.

Thoughts? :)
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I think they shouldn't try and find the next big franchise but actually focus on finding interesting stories with amazing characters. That should go for all the studios, not just Marvel studios.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

The Deadpool was made back in the 80's with Clint Eastwood. Great film.

Along side the Bond Films and the Trek films, Harry Potter has a ways to go.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

The Potter films are American to a fair degree, aren't they? They're distributed/co-produced by Warner Bros. Studios and scripted by an American screenwriter, the first three were directed by North American natives (an American and a Mexican), and their main musical motifs were created by an American composer.

But yeah, what Marvel Studios is doing is pretty impressive, creating a shared, coordinated motion picture universe analogous to a shared comics universe. It's an ambitious experiment and one that's proven surprisingly successful so far. But I think it might be best if they had a definite endgame in mind, if they made a finite number of films and then brought it to a decisive close before their creative momentum fizzled out.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I would tend to agree.

Always leave them wanting more.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I agree with you point about the impressiveness of the Mavel movieverse, but don't really see what it has to do with Potter.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I guess Spidey isn't considered here? Or is the reboot to be considered part of it?
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

So far as I know, only one "cinematic universe" has really preceded it - that being the View Askewniverse - but those stories were haphazardly and tangentially connected at best. ? :)


Don't forget the Universal Monsters movies of the 1940s, in which Frankenstein, Dracula, and the Wolfman shared in the same foggy, black-and-white, vaguely Eastern European universe, eventually crossing over into each others' films in movies like HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN, HOUSE OF DRACULA, and FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLFMAN . . . .

Too bad we'll never get ABBOTT & COSTELLO MEET THE AVENGERS. :)
 
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Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I guess Spidey isn't considered here? Or is the reboot to be considered part of it?
No, unfortunately Sony has Spidey and Fox has the X-Men (and Wolverine) so we won't be seeing either in any Avengers-verse movies (for now)
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I guess Spidey isn't considered here? Or is the reboot to be considered part of it?
No, unfortunately Sony has Spidey and Fox has the X-Men (and Wolverine) so we won't be seeing either in any Avengers-verse movies (for now)
No, that I get, but I was thinking along the lines of why couldn't Spidey be considered part of the same universe even if they're off telling their own stories? From what I recall there's nothing in the films that blatantly disconnects them from the current larger continuity. The question with Spidey would be more in regard to which Spidey continuity: Raimi's or the reboot?
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I've been really impressed with the Marvel movie universe so far. I've found it really impressive how they've been able to tie the movies together in a way that makes it clear this is all the same universe, without getting carried with all of the tie ins to each other. I know alot of people complained about the S.H.I.E.L.D./Avengers stuff in IM2, but I really didn't think it was to bad. I really wish they would do something like this for the DC movies.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I guess Spidey isn't considered here? Or is the reboot to be considered part of it?
No, unfortunately Sony has Spidey and Fox has the X-Men (and Wolverine) so we won't be seeing either in any Avengers-verse movies (for now)
No, that I get, but I was thinking along the lines of why couldn't Spidey be considered part of the same universe even if they're off telling their own stories? From what I recall there's nothing in the films that blatantly disconnects them from the current larger continuity. The question with Spidey would be more in regard to which Spidey continuity: Raimi's or the reboot?

Well, there's always this

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAhnwfATxV4[/yt]
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

I think the Marvel Movieverse is a rather cool idea.

I've never understood the complaints about how the movies have used Sheild to connect them all together.

This was the idea from the outset and Marvel told us they were going to do this.

I love the continuity and I am looking forward to viewing these movies back to back in marathon style after Avengers hits DVD.

An entire set of films all connected and building up to one epic story! Won't be dull like the last two or three HP films have been I'll bet! (sorry, I just can't drink the HP kool-aid!) Although I haven't seen the latest one yet and I understand that it's not too boring.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

The Potter films are American to a fair degree, aren't they? They're distributed/co-produced by Warner Bros. Studios and scripted by an American screenwriter, the first three were directed by North American natives (an American and a Mexican), and their main musical motifs were created by an American composer.

But yeah, what Marvel Studios is doing is pretty impressive, creating a shared, coordinated motion picture universe analogous to a shared comics universe. It's an ambitious experiment and one that's proven surprisingly successful so far. But I think it might be best if they had a definite endgame in mind, if they made a finite number of films and then brought it to a decisive close before their creative momentum fizzled out.

I can definitely agree with that, but unfortunately I see the creative momentum fizzling out long before they get a sense that it's time to end things. I guess I'm just a pessimist.

It's an interesting theory connecting them to the HP films in terms of scope though. What Marvel has been doing so far has been pretty ingenious so far.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

HP was a massive publishing success -- a phenomenon, really -- while Marvel has never achieved mainstream readership. The pre-built HP audience makes Marvel's success more impressive to me, because ten years ago the average movie-goer only had a vague inkling of who Iron Man and Thor were. Even this week, I asked two "big fans" who were going on about Captain America if The Vision or The Scarlet Witch will be in the Avengers movie. The response from both was "Who?"

--Justin
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

As an aside, The Fast and the Furious franchise seems like it might fit this mold as each installment is fairly independent from one another up until the last one or so, which combines members from all the movies.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

Well, there's always this
<outtake>
Hot damn, that is awesome! :rommie: :bolian:


No, that I get, but I was thinking along the lines of why couldn't Spidey be considered part of the same universe even if they're off telling their own stories? From what I recall there's nothing in the films that blatantly disconnects them from the current larger continuity. The question with Spidey would be more in regard to which Spidey continuity: Raimi's or the reboot?
Well, when Incredible Hulk came out, there was some snarking as to why Spidey didn't show up during the big Hulk/Abomination brawl...

It'll be interesting to see if, now that the Avengers are assembling, there'll be any subtle nods to other Marvel heroes. Granted, they can't actually show Spidey, but surely Sony's lawyers wouldn't/couldn't totally flip out if they merely obliquely referenced him in a throwaway line, or if Stark mentioned competition from OsCorp? I could definitely see Whedon trying something like that... or, I could also see Marvel Studios adamantly refusing to do anything like that. We'll see, I guess.


As an aside, The Fast and the Furious franchise seems like it might fit this mold as each installment is fairly independent from one another up until the last one or so, which combines members from all the movies.
Very true, although, AFAIK, they didn't really move in that direction until after the MCU started up...


An entire set of films all connected and building up to one epic story! Won't be dull like the last two or three HP films have been I'll bet!
Well, the MCU will almost certainly never spend an entire movie having its characters deal with a mean temporary principal, or looking for the secret behind an obscure spell, or camping out in the woods without much sense of what they're doing... they don't need to follow any one/trio of characters for 7/8 movies before getting to a big bad just because the creator initially promised that many stories up front... :p


Don't forget the Universal Monsters movies of the 1940s, in which Frankenstein, Dracula, and the Wolfman shared in the same foggy, black-and-white, vaguely Eastern European universe, eventually crossing over into each others' films in movies like HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN, HOUSE OF DRACULA, and FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLFMAN . . . .
Huh. And those movies really (more or less) made sense alongside each other?



The Potter films are American to a fair degree, aren't they?
Behind the lens, yeah, sure. But if there's any other 8-film series that doesn't have a single American character or even reference the US, I'd be intrigued to hear about it. :p


But yeah, what Marvel Studios is doing is pretty impressive, creating a shared, coordinated motion picture universe analogous to a shared comics universe. It's an ambitious experiment and one that's proven surprisingly successful so far. But I think it might be best if they had a definite endgame in mind, if they made a finite number of films and then brought it to a decisive close before their creative momentum fizzled out.
Well, there's no reason they couldn't continue to do smaller-scale, quality movies post-Avengers, which seems to be their plan. And, look on the bright side: we'll probably never get a god-awful Avengers epilogue! :rommie:
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

It'll be interesting to see if, now that the Avengers are assembling, there'll be any subtle nods to other Marvel heroes. Granted, they can't actually show Spidey, but surely Sony's lawyers wouldn't/couldn't totally flip out if they merely obliquely referenced him in a throwaway line, or if Stark mentioned competition from OsCorp? I could definitely see Whedon trying something like that... or, I could also see Marvel Studios adamantly refusing to do anything like that. We'll see, I guess.

Probably legal rights. Regardless of how "small" a reference is, a reference is a reference. Remember how in Daredevil they couldn't reference The Daily Bugle?

Very true, although, AFAIK, they didn't really move in that direction until after the MCU started up...

Fast and Furious came out a year later after Iron Man, although I bet the move to combine characters was more of a coincidence.

But if we are looking for a sprawling, cinematic universe, I'd say X-Men beat Avengers to the punch. However, as opposed to Avengers, X-Men doesn't have a specific target film they are building towards.
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

Probably legal rights. Regardless of how "small" a reference is, a reference is a reference. Remember how in Daredevil they couldn't reference The Daily Bugle?
No, but I do remember Aunt May telling Peter Parker he wasn't Superman. Now, granted, that was 1) a joke, and 2) clearly a reference to Superman the real-life pop-culture phenomenon, not a person who existed in those movies' universe, but still... :p


But if we are looking for a sprawling, cinematic universe, I'd say X-Men beat Avengers to the punch.
Except the MCU had already released two movies, with a big character crossover, by the time XMO:W (which, FC aside, plays more or less like a direct prequel to X 1-3, albeit a terrible one) came out. ;)
 
Re: The Marvel Cinematic Universe: America's answer to the Potter film

Probably legal rights. Regardless of how "small" a reference is, a reference is a reference. Remember how in Daredevil they couldn't reference The Daily Bugle?
No, but I do remember Aunt May telling Peter Parker he wasn't Superman. Now, granted, that was 1) a joke, and 2) clearly a reference to Superman the real-life pop-culture phenomenon, not a person who existed in those movies' universe, but still... :p

The Bugle had to be renamed in Daredevil because Fox didn't have the rights to use the name. Sony did. As such Ben Urich now worked for The New York Post.

Also, as you suggest, the Superman reference doesn't count as it was a reference to Supes as a pop-culture icon.

But if we are looking for a sprawling, cinematic universe, I'd say X-Men beat Avengers to the punch.
Except the MCU had already released two movies, with a big character crossover, by the time XMO:W (which, FC aside, plays more or less like a direct prequel to X 1-3, albeit a terrible one) came out. ;)
Plans for X-Men prequels, sequels, and spin-offs were already in the formative stages by the time The Last Stand was in post-production, at least a year before work on Iron Man began.
 
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