the KLINGON trek

[RobertScorpio]

I see many people bashing the TNG use of Klingons on TNG, and DS9. I believe that, for the most part, the Klingons were written very well indeed.

Oh, you might not like the fact they became Federation allies. But the events of The Undiscovered Country set those events in motion.

In fact, I think some of the best episodes of TNG-DS9 are Klingon episodes. The one where Duras kills Alexander's mother...The klingon Civil war...the one where Riker goes aboard a klingon ship in the exchange program...Sins of the father...Redemption...the one where future Alexander tries to kill his younger self...The way of the warrior....The Barge (voyager episode)..worf's wedding to Dax...the one where SISKO and crew "become" klingons to expose the changeling...Kor's final episode...Blood Oath...

I could go on, but I think everyone one of those episodes I have listed were great..

The problem is this. Some of you just don't seem to like how they evolved, they were 'softened'. To me, had they just been grunting two dimensional characters that would have been a let down. the Klingons are one of TREKs most explored characters and TNG DS9 did great jobs.

VOY and ENT use of Klingons is an entirely different discussion. But for me? TNG and DS9 (Ronald D Moore chiefly) did good...GOOD indeed

 

[HIj'Qa]

When Voyager was on and the subject of much criticism, I went along wit the crowd bashing Moore and Braga, until I did a list of my favorite episodes, and found most of them were Klingon ones written by - Moore and Braga! At one point they did good work.

On TNG and DS9 Klingons were done best as the foil to the Federation. During the Dom War Sisko and Martok had a great exchange where Sisko was speaking politically correctly.
Sisko – extract a singular destructive assault on the station.
and Martok translated in Klingon terms
Martok – Blow it up.

Due to circumstances beyond his control, though, Alexander is one psychologically messed up young man.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I liked MARTOK. I think the way they developed his story was well done. I loved the episode where WORF/DAX got married and Martok's wife came to DS9. Well done!!

 

[estrea]

I have no idea if fan participation had any bearing on the development of so many Klingon episodes in TNG and DS9, but there was an explosion of Klingon Fan Clubs during that era and many went to cons, created cons of their own. My only complaint, as I've posted elsewhere, is that the BoPs never got upgraded visually. TV or Movie.

Now that DS9 is over, the books have taken off and I'm happy for it. Also, despite the quality, Klingon fans are encouraged to create character backgrounds and many write their own fanfics.

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"I always wondered why the first command we learned to say in their language after taking over a Federation ship was: 'Where is the chocolate?'" K'Bett replied.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

Frankly I would have liked to see a lot less of the Bird of Prey in TNG and DS9, and by a lot less I mean none...or close to it. It was a neat looking ship and all but WAY over used, and it just became the generic Klingon ship for all purposes even if it didn't fit.

 

[Red Ranger]

^Have to agree with you there. But they did come up with the Vor'Cha class Klingon warship, and they started to use that one more often.

As for all the Klingon bashing, I don't understand it either. They were some of the best eps in all the series, VOY included. I really liked the one where B'Elanna, due to a near-death experience, feels compelled to save her mother from the barge of the dead and a dishonorable afterlife.

RR

 

[CommanderRaytas]

My problem with the TNG-era Klingons is their utter predictability. They're almost if not all constantly going on about honour, battle, warriors and all that blabla. Honestly, if I got a quid for every time a Klingon says "honour"...

But having said that, I do like Martok as a character and some Klingon episodes, like You are cordially invited (that's it, right?), or the one where Sisko and the gang dress up as Klingons to expose the changeling.

I wouldn't mind meeting a non-aggressive Klingon, a poet or ballet dancer or something to that effect. Something different, less predictable. Because even the lawyers and jumja-stick shop people are so very, very "Klingon" it makes me yawn.

 

[General Martok]

CommanderRaytas, you mean a Klingon like the restaurant owner in DS9's "Melora"? He seemed definitely much less "warrior-like" to me.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Yeah, actually that would be him....

Thing is, I'd welcome a real character and not just a background one, with a meaningful role. Someone not the least bit aggressive, soft-spoken, with good manners and a taste for the quiet life. And this shouldn't be an issue- like he's an outcast because he's not warrior-like or something rubbish like that.

But at least we know there *are" restaurant owners....

 

[Kubwulf]

They're Klingons. They're supposed to be 'klingony'. Always going on and on about honor, and battle and warriors...It was/is their culture. To have a shopkeep or restraunt owner or trader is fine. They may not have the skill level of a more dedicated fighter, but their honor would demand retribution for slights and the like. They should be concerned with honor. Its what makes them Klingon.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It's clichéd, I think. Real people are not like that. Not even in my family everyone's the same, let alone on the whole bloody planet. The fact that all Klingons are "honourable warriors" makes them predictable and boring cardboard characters.

But that's just my reason for not liking them too much. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Hmmmm...maybe. Though I think there are examples of societies here on Earth that carry on traditional beliefs and customs. I lived in Japan for four years, and in the back areas of that country there is still a since of honor and the old ways.

Native Americans seem to perpetuate a culture that seems to, for the most part, shun modern intervention.

The Klingons and Romulans pretty much live in closed societies, even in TNG's time. So I could see an entire culture resistant to change. In fact, that is part of their growth on TREK. Worf is forced to see that his own son is part of that modernization.

 

[Kubwulf]

^^ Agree

 

[Durek]

CommanderRaytas said:
It's clichéd, I think. Real people are not like that. Not even in my family everyone's the same, let alone on the whole bloody planet. The fact that all Klingons are "honourable warriors" makes them predictable and boring cardboard characters.

But that's just my reason for not liking them too much. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That's why I like the Klingons. The honor is what I like about them. Many talk like honor is a bad thing. Those that think that need to check themselves.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It's not the honour in itself that's bad. I just feel it's horribly overused.

Besides, every Klingon has the same concept of "honour", and that's always about not letting anyone say something bad about your fighting skills or something to that effect. There's honour in being smart, dignified and shutting your trap once in a while, too. But expecting a philosophical debate might be pushing it, I reckon. Just for once I would have liked to see someone who didn't fit the cliche.

Good thing we don't all feel the same about them, then.

 

[Durek]

CommanderRaytas said:
It's not the honour in itself that's bad. I just feel it's horribly overused.

Besides, every Klingon has the same concept of "honour", and that's always about not letting anyone say something bad about your fighting skills or something to that effect. There's honour in being smart, dignified and shutting your trap once in a while, too. But expecting a philosophical debate might be pushing it, I reckon. Just for once I would have liked to see someone who didn't fit the cliche.

Good thing we don't all feel the same about them, then.

I guess my least favorite Star Trek people are humans, or the Federation to be more precise. To me as a whole, the Federation are a bunch of G** D*** hypocrites. They preach diversity, but they want everyone to se things their way. Michael Eddington was right. They're worse than even the Borg.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

That's true. Sanctimonious lot they are. I think they'd annoy me more if they had some catchphrase like the Klingons or Vulcans (*cough* logic *cough*), though.

 

[Durek]

CommanderRaytas said:
That's true. Sanctimonious lot they are. I think they'd annoy me more if they had some catchphrase like the Klingons or Vulcans (*cough* logic *cough*), though.

I guess I just hate hypocrites like the Federation. Reminds me of the US government.