Is it just me or the Klingon in Star Trek VI was too noble and calm for a Klingon? Because when I watch Star Trek VI, I feel that Klingon in Star Trek VI is not a Klingon but an Oriental Kingdom like China or Mongol.
The Klingon in Star Trek VI
- Thread starter Brainsucker
- Start date
It almost sounds like you're referring to Chancellor Gorkon...
Gorkon was more of a diplomat than a warrior. His persona was reminiscent of Abraham Lincoln, in being that he was attempting to bring two sides at odds with one another through peace. It may seem uncommon for a Klingon to pursue such matters in a non-aggressive sort of way, but Gorkon apparently felt indifferent to the traditional ways of Klingon culture. Perhaps he realized that war wasn't the way to go, that the Federation has some potential to be a well-respected ally...
...now, if it's General Chang you're referring to, I like to look at him as being the 'seasoned veteran', much like Kirk. Grunting, growling, acting on your impulses and shoot-from-the-hip tactics don't work for him. He's experienced in the ways of combat and strategy in that he can keep a cool head while planning his attack...
...but he went up against Kirk and lost, so it didn't matter anyway.
I could be completely off-base here, so anyone else feel free to jump in!
Gorkon was more of a diplomat than a warrior. His persona was reminiscent of Abraham Lincoln, in being that he was attempting to bring two sides at odds with one another through peace. It may seem uncommon for a Klingon to pursue such matters in a non-aggressive sort of way, but Gorkon apparently felt indifferent to the traditional ways of Klingon culture. Perhaps he realized that war wasn't the way to go, that the Federation has some potential to be a well-respected ally...
...now, if it's General Chang you're referring to, I like to look at him as being the 'seasoned veteran', much like Kirk. Grunting, growling, acting on your impulses and shoot-from-the-hip tactics don't work for him. He's experienced in the ways of combat and strategy in that he can keep a cool head while planning his attack...
...but he went up against Kirk and lost, so it didn't matter anyway.
I could be completely off-base here, so anyone else feel free to jump in!
I think you are confusing your Klingons. The TOS/movie klingons were different than the TNG/DS9/Voy/Ent klingons.
^^I agree. Other than Kruge spouting about "you will be remembered with honor" the TOS-Movie Klingons were a lot different than the 24th century ones.
The whole 'noble-honorable' crazy violent warlike savage Klingons of the 24th century always confused me.
They disparage the Romulans as devious and sneaky but honor their ancestors who killed women children and helpless prisoners--whatever.
The whole 'noble-honorable' crazy violent warlike savage Klingons of the 24th century always confused me.
They disparage the Romulans as devious and sneaky but honor their ancestors who killed women children and helpless prisoners--whatever.
I took this as not that out there. I mean he was talking to his chick. And it was still in line with the movie klingons as I always saw it as more fleshed out, that there was a segment of the klingons who were like the Japanese samurai, bound by honor and living by a code, but that there were few and a "religous subsect" of the empire's population.
It's too one note. Like I said above.
Well, that was also partly because GR decided to flip the two races back story when they went into TNG.
I still think that the best example of what the Klingons should have evolved into was the cardassians. That's why I always thought that you could place DS9 into a slot around the time of the early 2300's, replace the cardiassians with the post VI klingons but keeping them the same way, and it would work just fine.
So, which is Klingon thats the true klingon then? The 24th or the movie Klingon? Or the 23rd Century Star Trek and 24th century Star Trek lies in different dimension? Or in reality there is no canon in Star Trek Universe.
If there is no establish canon, so why would we bother with the canon or things that different than something that we have seen in early Star Trek?
Note : The Klingon that I mean is the Klingon Princess. She's too human for my taste. A kind of Human noble, not Klingon. At least, not the Klingon that I know.
If there is no establish canon, so why would we bother with the canon or things that different than something that we have seen in early Star Trek?
Note : The Klingon that I mean is the Klingon Princess. She's too human for my taste. A kind of Human noble, not Klingon. At least, not the Klingon that I know.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
You don't know the first thing about Asians, do you?
You might as well have brought up Flash Gordon, Ming the Merciless, and the planet of Mongo while you were at it.
The way the Klingons were depicted in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) was to show that not all of them were mindless warmongers, but also politicians, diplomats, court officials, and even civilized people who appreciate fine "human literature" such as the works of William Shakespeare.
A well-rounded society was depicted in that film, rather than the usual 1-dimensional "moustache twirling" villains that we usually see in Hollywood films.
The reason why Kruge's and Valkris's dialog has the TOS Romulan "honor" slant to it is because the original premise of Harve Bennett's "Star Trek III: Return to Genesis" features Romulans, not Klingons. It was felt that regular cinema-goers would be puzzled that pointy-eared Sarek and Saavik being featured in a search for pointy-eared Spock, while hampered by pointy-eared, evil Romulans. Thus, with a sweep of a pen, Romulans became Klingons, and a cloaked Romulan bird of prey became a Klingon bird of prey, and Klingons became "honorable".
You don't know the first thing about Asians, do you?
You might as well have brought up Flash Gordon, Ming the Merciless, and the planet of Mongo while you were at it.
The way the Klingons were depicted in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) was to show that not all of them were mindless warmongers, but also politicians, diplomats, court officials, and even civilized people who appreciate fine "human literature" such as the works of William Shakespeare.
A well-rounded society was depicted in that film, rather than the usual 1-dimensional "moustache twirling" villains that we usually see in Hollywood films.
Oh don't worry, I understand Asian well because I'm Chinese and live in South East Asia. Although just the skin, I understand about the east Asia history well, too.
The Klingon in Star Trek VI is just like a Holywood old movie version of Oriental Kingdom for my taste.
You don't seem very familiar with the mongol inspiration for the Klingons in the first place.
I like the idea that the Klingons were not particularly one dimensional all of the time. There were the quiet diplomats like Gorkon. Their were the fiery crazed ones like Gowron. And there were the in-between ones like Worf (yes, he was raised by humans, but his personality was truly Klingon).
What is this stuff about Romulans being honorable and Klingons being dishonorable in TOS?
It was always more like vice versa. Romulans premiered by making a cowardly sneak attack in an invisible ship, the crew of which backstabbed each other and undermined their mission and morale by behind-the-back talk. They proceeded by firing on a mission of mercy, then trying to corrupt a Federation officer while plotting to kill his crew. Not a shred of (human-style) honor there.
Klingons in turn premiered by taking over a planet and setting up rules, which they themselves then followed to the hilt, and when their leader was defeated by our heroes, he was courteous at every turn. When both he and the heroes were defeated by outside forces, both were courteous at defeat (the Klingons initially moreso!), and went on to honor a peace treaty, in letter at least. When caught circumventing that treaty, a Klingon sabotage mission withdrew peacefully, apparently out of shame. Years later, Klingon warriors enraged by a combination of seeming Federation atrocities and a psychoactive alien influence still referred to the treaty and insisted that it dictated their behavior. Very human-style honor codes there. Against all that background, a few sneak attacks and acts of sabotage in the other two Klingon episodes look like minor mischief...
Timo Saloniemi
It was always more like vice versa. Romulans premiered by making a cowardly sneak attack in an invisible ship, the crew of which backstabbed each other and undermined their mission and morale by behind-the-back talk. They proceeded by firing on a mission of mercy, then trying to corrupt a Federation officer while plotting to kill his crew. Not a shred of (human-style) honor there.
Klingons in turn premiered by taking over a planet and setting up rules, which they themselves then followed to the hilt, and when their leader was defeated by our heroes, he was courteous at every turn. When both he and the heroes were defeated by outside forces, both were courteous at defeat (the Klingons initially moreso!), and went on to honor a peace treaty, in letter at least. When caught circumventing that treaty, a Klingon sabotage mission withdrew peacefully, apparently out of shame. Years later, Klingon warriors enraged by a combination of seeming Federation atrocities and a psychoactive alien influence still referred to the treaty and insisted that it dictated their behavior. Very human-style honor codes there. Against all that background, a few sneak attacks and acts of sabotage in the other two Klingon episodes look like minor mischief...
Timo Saloniemi
That's how they were conceived and written. Per early docs (the first writers' bible?), a Klingon would fart in an airlock. They were trecherous and barbaric. Romulans were more refined. After all, the Klingons were based on mongols, while the Roms were based on the Romans.
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