The Illyrians should be the next movie's antagonist

[Assimilated Tom]

Link to this very forgettable race:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Illyrian

The fact that there is a species whose first contact with humanity was, "We met aliens called 'humans' from the planet 'Earth' on a ship called 'Enterprise.' They stole our warp coil and marooned us for years." seems like too good a story opportunity to pass up.

Obviously no movie should spend more than 10 seconds referencing "Damage" specifically or "Enterprise" in general, but doing so isn't necessary. There is a race that justifiably thinks humans are the bad guys, and that's all you need to know. Just like you don't need to know jack about "Space Seed" going into "Wrath of Khan" other than that Khan met Kirk before and is pissed at him.

Using the Illyrians presents storytelling opportunities that I personally find intriguing:

• Kirk and his crew are on a five-year mission. What happens when they start running into species who have been warned about humans in general, and a ship named Enterprise specifically?
• What do you do when the antagonist is not a villain and has a very legitimate reason to oppose you? How do you hope to establish peaceful relations when you have the gall to name your ship after a pirate vessel?

That gives an opportunity for blockbuster action (random species may attack the Enterprise when they introduce themselves), mystery (why are these guys attacking us?), and a moral quandry (what do you do when you can't convince another race that you're not the bad guy, but they're making your mission or peaceful exploration impossible?). Three of the things that make Star Trek great.

 

[Oso Blanco]

What do you do when the antagonist is not a villain and has a very legitimate reason to oppose you?

That's basically what we had been promised for STID, and look what we've got.

I'm sure the Illyrians won't be any different than Nero or Khan. They will have a leader that is full of hate against humans for whatever reason (maybe his father or grandfather was onboard the vessel from "Damage") and he. will. have. his. vengeance.

That being said, I really like your idea ... but I doubt we will ever get a sophisticated antagonist in a Trek movie ...

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I opened this thread hoping it would suggest a time travel story that visits and explores the potential ancient ancestors of Albanians. I am disappointed it is another suggestion for aliens with weird foreheads. The next film will have a big enough budget, it can afford more elaborate and distinct aliens. Stop with these foreheads. I am tired of these humans, er, humanoids.

OTOH, I was surprised that I do remember those Illyrians from Enterprise. What Archer did was really really bothersome. A follow-up to that story would be pleasant to see, particularly when they would be extremely wary of humanity, but I don't think it is something that would work for a film. Next series, though, why not? Even then, too much time has passed, it would have worked for season five of Enterprise if it ever happened, now who even remembers what Archer did in the Expanse? Both in the audience and the Illyrians?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Bad idea.

 

[Kolinahr]

Why is this a bad idea? I figure it's worth a try and that even if it doesn't turn out very good it'll be on par with '09 and Into Darkness. Those were pretty fun movies, after all. Sure they weren't 100% true to the source material, but it's hard to get something like that right.

Besides that, if it is actually done right we'll be in for one awesome treat

Ignoring all that, aren't the reboots basically an AU universe? Presumably things changed quite a bit with Nero and future Spock tumbling through the space time continuum - Kirk lost his Dad, young Spock seems more emotional, etc.

If none of this makes sense or if you want me to explain something further, please don't hesitate to tell me. I love to discuss things. I just don't get why Admiral Buzzkill seems so bluntly opposed to the idea.

 

[bbailey861]

I opened this thread hoping it would suggest a time travel story

'Just say no' to time travel.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I opened this thread hoping it would suggest a time travel story

'Just say no' to time travel.

Yeah, we don't need more films like The Voyage Home, First Contact, Star Trek, or episodes like The City on the Edge of Forever and Yesterday's Enterprise, I guess?

 

[Kolinahr]

Yeah, we don't need more films like The Voyage Home, First Contact, Star Trek, or episodes like The City on the Edge of Forever and Yesterday's Enterprise, I guess?

Maybe not. I don't know. I guess I just was confused by the blunt, unexplained refusal that I saw above.

 

[BillJ]

I opened this thread hoping it would suggest a time travel story

'Just say no' to time travel.

Yeah, we don't need more films like The Voyage Home, First Contact, Star Trek, or episodes like The City on the Edge of Forever and Yesterday's Enterprise, I guess?

I'm kinda burnt-out on time travel. Though I could easily put those feelings aside if the right story were to come along. Like, having Kirk and Company face off against Khan again with the Eugenics War as the backdrop. This time Khan would have home-field advantage.

 

[Kolinahr]

Eugenics Wars would be painful for me to watch. But yes, if done right it would be highly entertaining and make a good movie.

 

[BillJ]

Eugenics Wars would be painful for me to watch.

How so? If you don't mind me asking?

 

[Kruezerman]

Wow, I've been a fan my entire life, and I didn't know who the hell they were.

 

[Kolinahr]

How so? If you don't mind me asking?

Though it would undoubtedly be extremely fascinating, I hate the idea of someone working to bring about the actual destruction of a race. I can and will watch things with that subject matter but it makes me feel extremely depressed afterward and I cry a lot during them.

So yes. I basically don't like watching things that would make me cry, though I will if they are well done. It's a complicated kind of love-hate relationship.

Does that make any sense?

 

[BillJ]

Wow, I've been a fan my entire life, and I didn't know who the hell they were.

You and me both.

 

[BillJ]

How so? If you don't mind me asking?

Though it would undoubtedly be extremely fascinating, I hate the idea of someone working to bring about the actual destruction of a race. I can and will watch things with that subject matter but it makes me feel extremely depressed afterward and I cry a lot during them.

So yes. I basically don't like watching things that would make me cry, though I will if they are well done. It's a complicated kind of love-hate relationship.

Does that make any sense?

Absolutely. I usually don't find myself drawn to those types of movies either. Though, surprisingly, I did like World War Z. Besides, a Trek version of the war would be sanitized so they can make sure to get a PG-13 rating.

 

[Kolinahr]

Absolutely. I usually don't find myself drawn to those types of movies either. Though, surprisingly, I did like World War Z. Besides, a Trek version of the war would be sanitized so they can make sure to get a PG-13 rating.

World War Z? I wondered if that was actually any good. It seemed a bit overdone when I looked at the trailers. Good to know that Trek movies would probably tone it down a bit, too. I was kind of worried. The Boy in the Striped Pajamas was my first introduction to the whole idea of people elevating their race above another.

It was highly traumatic because I was so unprepared for the ending...

 

[Kruezerman]

That movie made me cry.

 

[Kolinahr]

That movie made me cry.

You know that's right

Well, back on topic. I think that the OP's idea might well make a good reboot-verse movie. All that matters is how well Abrams and the crew pull it off.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why is this a bad idea?

Because the conflict is based entirely on back story, and it's back story pertaining to a group that no one has ever given a fuck about to begin with.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Because the conflict is based entirely on back story, and it's back story pertaining to a group that no one has ever given a fuck about to begin with.

You're right of course, but we don't need to take the OP so literally. He likes his Illyrians, let him have his fantasy.

There were several episodes that handled similar stories without any established back story to back them up – encounters with civilizations that humanity has failed in the past. TOS did it, Voyager did it. I hated all of them, I won't lie, but I don't think it was the general idea that sucked. That were just bad, but it is not a subject matter without potential.

STID already did set up an opportunity with the Nibiru sequence. We have it established that in the new timeline the Prime Directive is something we (kinda) care about, and that Kirk still tends to ignore it from time to time. Demons from the past coming to haunt either Kirk or the Federation from pre-Prime Directive time won't come out of the blue. And there are plenty of ways to tie that into critical commentary of our present and a conflict with the Klingons at the same time. Shamelessly putting humanity's perceived interest above all and sweeping the harm done to others under the rug is certainly a juicy subject to deal with.

Of course, a story for THE Illyrians of ENT is out of the question, and given how well the subject has been handled in the past, I'd rather not have in the third film in that manner.