The Federation's Economy

[Thirishar]

Has it ever been explained how exactly the Federation's "moneyless economy" works?

I'd like to understand it, because I really don't think it's possible. How are people rewarded for hard work if not financially? I mean, a total egalitarian society sounds nice, but in reality it would never work because then there would be no incentive for people to work hard and thus nothing would get done. I know they have replicators in the 24th century so that pretty much eliminates the need for a manufacturing industry, but what about the people who build starships? Or people who spend many years in training like Doctors and Scientists? Surely they are compensated better than, say, a janitor. And what about Starfleet people? I know it's mentioned in the Worlds of DS9 story Paradigm that startleet personnel who are stationed in capitalistic societies are given credits by Starfleet in order to buy what they need. But if the Federation has no economy, what is the value of their money?

 

[Anticitizen]

They're paid in holodeck hours

 

[TheGodBen]

In short, it doesn't work. There are examples on Earth of small scale communities that don't use currency, but the problem with those communities is that children who come from them tend to leave, so they are dying off. The idea that such a system could expand to a space-fairing empire is very hard to imagine.

It's a nice idea, but unworkable on a large scale.

 

[Sci]

Part of the confusion stems from the fact that even though Picard has claimed that there's no money in the Federation on numerous occasions, we have also seen Federates use money on numerous occasions, even within the UFP.

I would theorize that the Federation, therefore, uses a hybrid economy -- the essentials of healthy living can be provided to you for free: Food, water, shelter, heat, and health care. I even imagine that they're given a free subscription to the Federation News Service so that they'll know enough about current events to make educated votes in the next election. I rather imagine that someone who chooses to gain these resources through the government, however, is assigned housing, and that their housing is probably akin to a comfortable dorm room at a college.

But, if you want to decide for yourself where you're going to live, or if you want luxuries, then you have to gain employment somewhere, earn some money -- I figure the Federation is a cashless society whose monetary unit is the Federation Credit -- and buy it. You want a house by a beach? You either have to earn some money so that you can buy or build it, or you'll have to go and join a colonization effort on some empty planet that Federation citizens are colonizing.

I figure that's the best of both worlds: No one suffers from poverty, but anyone who wants more has to earn it.

 

[TheGodBen]

I figure the Federation is a cashless society whose monetary unit is the Federation Credit.

That's what I used to think, but then I read this on memory alpha:

Ronald D. Moore commented: "By the time I joined TNG, Gene had decreed that money most emphatically did NOT exist in the Federation, nor did 'credits' and that was that. Personally, I've always felt this was a bunch of hooey, but it was one of the rules and that's that."

So if we go by GR's idea of the Federation then there isn't even any credits.

However, the same article says that Bolarus still uses money. It seems that Earth has renounced money but other Federation worlds still have localised economies. Some human colonies might still use money too.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

in "The Doomsday Machine," Kirk tells Scotty "You just earned your pay for the week!" So, presumably Scotty is still paid on a weekly basis, probably by Kirk directly in the form of booze

 

[Sci]

I figure the Federation is a cashless society whose monetary unit is the Federation Credit.

That's what I used to think, but then I read this on memory alpha:

Ronald D. Moore commented: "By the time I joined TNG, Gene had decreed that money most emphatically did NOT exist in the Federation, nor did 'credits' and that was that. Personally, I've always felt this was a bunch of hooey, but it was one of the rules and that's that."

So if we go by GR's idea of the Federation then there isn't even any credits.

However, the same article says that Bolarus still uses money. It seems that Earth has renounced money but other Federation worlds still have localised economies. Some human colonies might still use money too.

Again, the problem is that Trek has given us contradictory information. Sure, Gene said that there's no money or credits at all -- but, there again, Beverly bought something from the Denebans and told them to charge her account in "Encounter at Farpoint." Janeway and Tuvok bought a Vulcan meditative lamp from a Vulcan merchant on Vulcan, who jacked up the price when he saw their Starfleet uniforms, as related in "The Gift." As you noted, there's a Bank of Bolias as established in "Honor Among Thieves." Cyrano Jones charges credits for people seeking to buy tribbles in "The Trouble With Tribbles," and Spock poses as a Vulcan merchant in "Errand of Mercy" whilst Arne Darvin poses as a Human merchant named Barry Waddle in "Trials and Tribble-ations." The Doctor's publishers in "Author, Author" are way to eager to publish his holo-novel to be realistic unless they're charging money to use it. Scotty buys a boat in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, and Quark is forced to sell his shuttle for scrap metal in order to buy passage on a transport back to Deep Space 9 in "Little Green Men." Bashir's father talks about running his own shuttle transport business in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?".... etc.

To me, the only reasonable way to reconcile Picard's declaration that wealth is no longer the driving force behind the people of the Federation and that money "as we understand it" doesn't exist is to assume that the Federation is a cashless society where the essentials of healthy living can be provided for free but luxuries must be earned.

And, frankly, I don't give a toss what Gene says about all that because he obviously had no real sense of how economics works (or of his own hypocrisy in making millions off a TV show whilst using that as a vehicle to crusade against the evils of capitalism). Gene Roddenberry's word does not equal canon.

 

[Thirishar]

And, frankly, I don't give a toss what Gene says about all that because he obviously had no real sense of how economics works (or of his own hypocrisy in making millions off a TV show whilst using that as a vehicle to crusade against the evils of capitalism). Gene Roddenberry's word does not equal canon.

Shame on you, talking about GR like that!

But seriously, you're right. Gene obviously didn't think it through. He probably just thought a moneyless ecomony sounded nice.

 

[Dayton3]

IIRC, a science fiction writer once said that

"science fiction writers should spend less time on future politics and more time on future economics".

In regards to the Federation, and Picard IIRC explaining "we seek to improve ourselves" regarding how people choose to work, someone once said

"I wonder if that guy mopping the floor in Sisko's was 'seeking to improve himself'".

 

[JoeZhang]

IIRC, a science fiction writer once said that

"science fiction writers should spend less time on future politics and more time on future economics".

In regards to the Federation, and Picard IIRC explaining "we seek to improve ourselves" regarding how people choose to work, someone once said

"I wonder if that guy mopping the floor in Sisko's was 'seeking to improve himself'".

Maybe he was a chief research scientist and he found his weekend job at Sisko's was a good stress relief?

 

[TheGodBen]

I wonder if that guy mopping the floor in Sisko's was 'seeking to improve himself'.

Maybe he had OCD. Oh wait, humans are perfect in the future and OCD has been cured. The only reasonable explanation I can find and GR closed the door on that too.

Strangely, the first canon references to there being no money in the future are during the 1986 scenes in TVH, and those were written by Nicholas Meyer. He certainly didn't seem to subscribe to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.

 

[Sci]

I wonder if that guy mopping the floor in Sisko's was 'seeking to improve himself'.

Maybe he had OCD. Oh wait, humans are perfect in the future and OCD has been cured. The only reasonable explanation I can find and GR closed the door on that too.

Strangely, the first canon references to there being no money in the future are during the 1986 scenes in TVH, and those were written by Nicholas Meyer. He certainly didn't seem to subscribe to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.

Yeah, and in his next movie, he had Scotty buying a boat and the Federation and Klingon Empires both making policy partly on the basis of economic concerns.

I just interpret that to mean that Americans in 1986 still used "money" in the sense of physical currency, which the Federation does not use, having converted to an entirely electronic economy.

Maybe he was a chief research scientist and he found his weekend job at Sisko's was a good stress relief?

I have never, in my entire life, met anyone who found working at a restaurant to be good stress relief. If anything, working at a restaurant is a good source of additional stress!

 

[Timewalker]

In part, it could be as simple as just not using physical currency -- the way we tend to do more and more in our everyday lives right now. I was flabbergasted earlier this year when I saw a PAY PHONE THAT DOES NOT ACCEPT COINS. The only way to use this phone is with a phone, bank, or credit card.

 

[Dayton3]

Remember that when we say "The Federation economy" it is entirely possible that Starfleet and other Federation institutions operate on a different system than the individual worlds of the Federation do.

After all, in the U.S., we have a number of military personnel who live on a U.S. govt. military base, shop at a military store and so on.

In regards to the rest of the economy, I'm actually reminded of something from the second season premier of SeaQuest DSV of all things.

In it, Captain Nathan Bridger is racing along on a motorcycle at well above the speed limit. A camera records his speed, then transmits a message that as a penalty, 938 dollars will be deducted from his Social Security account.

So that could well be the Federation system. Virtually all exchanges of money are handled electronically with individuals very rarely troubling themselves with such matters.

 

[The Borg Queen]

The existence of the replicator makes money irrelevant.

 

[Nerys Myk]

in "The Doomsday Machine," Kirk tells Scotty "You just earned your pay for the week!" So, presumably Scotty is still paid on a weekly basis, probably by Kirk directly in the form of booze

Might be a euphemism. We use them all the time in the real world.

 

[Dayton3]

The existence of the replicator makes money irrelevant.

Replicators require power.

Power isn't free.

 

[The Borg Queen]

The existence of the replicator makes money irrelevant.

Replicators require power.

Power isn't free.

You're right. Now excuse me while I go and get a sun tan while feeling the wind blow through my hair...

 

[Dayton3]

in "The Doomsday Machine," Kirk tells Scotty "You just earned your pay for the week!" So, presumably Scotty is still paid on a weekly basis, probably by Kirk directly in the form of booze

Might be a euphemism. We use them all the time in the real world.

In "The Apple" Kirk angrily tells Spock after Spock risks his life to push Kirk out of the way of the "blow dart plants"

"Do you know how much Starfleet has invested in you?"

Spock:

"Approximately fifteen thousand...."

Kirk:

"Never mind!"

Doesn't sound like euphemisms to me.

 

[TheGodBen]

The existence of the replicator makes money irrelevant.

Who builds the replicators? Can you replicate a replicator with an even bigger replicator? In which case, who built the bigger replicator, a giant replicator?