The fall... I don't get it...

[T J]

Sorry I'm sure this has been in other threads but I didn't see it but...

When the Enterprise and Vengeance drop out of warp in the Sol system they are right next to the moon... then the Enterprise falls to Earth, what is now a 3 day journey... I don't get it. Wouldn't the moons gravity have pulled them to crash there not Earth?

 

[Belz...]

Sorry I'm sure this has been in other threads but I didn't see it but...

When the Enterprise and Vengeance drop out of warp in the Sol system they are right next to the moon... then the Enterprise falls to Earth, what is now a 3 day journey... I don't get it. Wouldn't the moons gravity have pulled them to crash there not Earth?

3 day journey at Apollo speeds. And they are not right next to the moon, they are simply closer to it than to the Earth. 200,000 something km.

With some impulse maneuvering during battle, and the long while it took afterwards, I don't see that as a problem.

 

[boobatuba]

With some impulse maneuvering during battle, and the long while it took afterwards, I don't see that as a problem.

Then you lack the proper scientific understanding of how gravity works to understand why the scene was a problem. The Enterprise had no impulse power (Spock: "We cannot fire, and we cannot flee."). The scene clearly shows the main power grid failing and gravity from Earth suddenly accelerating the Enterprise towards a crash. It's completely implausible.

But, again, the film makers don't care about scientific accuracy.

 

[ATimson]

Then you lack the proper scientific understanding of how gravity works to understand why the scene was a problem. The Enterprise had no impulse power (Spock: "We cannot fire, and we cannot flee."). The scene clearly shows the main power grid failing and gravity from Earth suddenly accelerating the Enterprise towards a crash. It's completely implausible.

We don't know what the Enterprise's initial velocity relative to Earth was after coming out of warp. That initial momentum could have carried them close enough to the planet for gravity to have a more significant effect.

 

[beamMe]

With some impulse maneuvering during battle, and the long while it took afterwards, I don't see that as a problem.

Then you lack the proper scientific understanding of how gravity works to understand why the scene was a problem. The Enterprise had no impulse power (Spock: "We cannot fire, and we cannot flee."). The scene clearly shows the main power grid failing and gravity from Earth suddenly accelerating the Enterprise towards a crash. It's completely implausible.

She had power to maintain a relative position to the Earth one moment and lost it the next moment.
She can no longer maintain her relative position and the Earth catches her in its gravity well.

SciFi-science - it works.

 

[gerbil]

With some impulse maneuvering during battle, and the long while it took afterwards, I don't see that as a problem.

Then you lack the proper scientific understanding of how gravity works to understand why the scene was a problem. The Enterprise had no impulse power (Spock: "We cannot fire, and we cannot flee."). The scene clearly shows the main power grid failing and gravity from Earth suddenly accelerating the Enterprise towards a crash. It's completely implausible.

She had power to maintain a relative position to the Earth one moment and lost it the next moment.
She can no longer maintain her relative position and the Earth catches her in its gravity well.

SciFi-science - it works.

Especially when you figure that there must have been an enormous amount of random gasses escaping the multiple hull breaches and damaged components. They may have had thrusters to keep them in place then suddenly lost that.

 

[boobatuba]

Especially when you figure that there must have been an enormous amount of random gasses escaping the multiple hull breaches and damaged components. They may have had thrusters to keep them in place then suddenly lost that.

You wouldn't need continuous thrusters to do that. Remember, they used thrusters to align carefully with the Vengeance. Why would the Vengeance be moving toward Earth?

 

[beamMe]

Especially when you figure that there must have been an enormous amount of random gasses escaping the multiple hull breaches and damaged components. They may have had thrusters to keep them in place then suddenly lost that.

You wouldn't need continuous thrusters to do that.

You do know what 'relative position' means, don't you?

 

[Noname Given]

But, again, the film makers don't care about scientific accuracy.

To be fair neither did the writers or producers of TOS back in the day (especially if it interfered with a story or plot element.)

 

[boobatuba]

Especially when you figure that there must have been an enormous amount of random gasses escaping the multiple hull breaches and damaged components. They may have had thrusters to keep them in place then suddenly lost that.

You wouldn't need continuous thrusters to do that.

You do know what 'relative position' means, don't you?

Yes, I do. I also know that the gravitational pull of the Earth at 200,000+ km. would be so insignificant that it wouldn't require thrusters to overcome it over the time spans we're talking about here. Science.

ETA: The force of the Earth's gravity at 200,000 km distance is 10mm/s^2. For reference, the Sun's gravitational pull at the same spot on a object is 6mm/s^2.

To be fair neither did the writers or producers of TOS back in the day (especially if it interfered with a story or plot element.)

Sure. And I never said or implied that's necessarily a bad thing. But it kind of invalidates attempts by fan-wankers to try and justify scientifically what they see on screen.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But it kind of invalidates attempts by fan-wankers to try and justify scientifically what they see on screen.

Sure. Take away our fun.

And why the name-calling?

 

[JarodRussell]

Sillies. It was the gravitational pull from the black hole they created just a couple of warp seconds next to Earth.

 

[beamMe]

You wouldn't need continuous thrusters to do that.

You do know what 'relative position' means, don't you?

Yes, I do. I also know that the gravitational pull of the Earth at 200,000+ km. would be so insignificant that it wouldn't require thrusters to overcome it over the time spans we're talking about here. Science.

ETA: The force of the Earth's gravity at 200,000 km distance is 10mm/s^2. For reference, the Sun's gravitational pull at the same spot on a object is 6mm/s^2.

To be fair neither did the writers or producers of TOS back in the day (especially if it interfered with a story or plot element.)

Sure. And I never said or implied that's necessarily a bad thing. But it kind of invalidates attempts by fan-wankers to try and justify scientifically what they see on screen.

You are the fan-wanker who brought science into this silly argument.

 

[Belz...]

With some impulse maneuvering during battle, and the long while it took afterwards, I don't see that as a problem.

Then you lack the proper scientific understanding of how gravity works to understand why the scene was a problem. The Enterprise had no impulse power (Spock: "We cannot fire, and we cannot flee.").

Yeah, AT WARP. They cannot flee because the Warp engines are damaged. He didn't specify anything about impulse, and as someone else has mentioned, we don't know at what speed the Enterprise came out of warp. For all your accusation of me not understanding gravity, you don't understand English very well. I'd say one is more important than the other.

The scene clearly shows the main power grid failing and gravity from Earth suddenly accelerating the Enterprise towards a crash. It's completely implausible.

The scene ? You mean the scene twenty five minutes later ?

But, again, the film makers don't care about scientific accuracy.

They rarely do.

 

[M'Sharak]

Especially when you figure that there must have been an enormous amount of random gasses escaping the multiple hull breaches and damaged components. They may have had thrusters to keep them in place then suddenly lost that.

You wouldn't need continuous thrusters to do that.

You do know what 'relative position' means, don't you?

beamMe, there must be a way you could have put that which didn't have a load of "Boy, you're stupid" heavily implied. You need to work harder at finding that less-hostile way, and you need to do that soon.

You do know what 'relative position' means, don't you?

Yes, I do. I also know that the gravitational pull of the Earth at 200,000+ km. would be so insignificant that it wouldn't require thrusters to overcome it over the time spans we're talking about here. Science.

ETA: The force of the Earth's gravity at 200,000 km distance is 10mm/s^2. For reference, the Sun's gravitational pull at the same spot on a object is 6mm/s^2.

To be fair neither did the writers or producers of TOS back in the day (especially if it interfered with a story or plot element.)

Sure. And I never said or implied that's necessarily a bad thing. But it kind of invalidates attempts by fan-wankers to try and justify scientifically what they see on screen.

You are the fan-wanker who brought science into this silly argument.

And the name-calling needs to stop right now. If I see it again from you, it'll be a warning.

Address the content of the post without taking a swipe at the poster - it's just not that hard a thing to do.

 

[Jax]

It was exciting so the film makers put it in, simple answer

 

[beamMe]

It was exciting so the film makers put it in, simple answer

This.

 

[Commishsleer]

I've only done 1st year University physics so my proposal is:
The Enterprise has some momentum and is actually on a course to Earth's surface, not by design but as a result of the battle. And they don't have the power to stop this motion. I don't think it was mentioned that they were in geo-stationary orbit

I can't remember hearing the 200 000 km mentioned. I guess it wasn't that important to me. I'm probably in the it was exciting camp mostly.

 

[Belz...]

But it's true to say that writers are usually unaware of the most basic laws of physics.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Even when they are aware of basic laws of physics they'll often ignore it to do the cool thing instead.