The Eugenics Cures

[The Laughing Vulcan]

It's one of those cases where observation conflicts with evidence...

In the future, we see a humanity that is relatively free of debilitating disease and affliction. You don't see too many people in the future wearing glasses, not too many asthmatics, no mention of sickle cell anaemia, and a variety of other ailments that are inherited rather than passed through infection or environment.

At the same time, we hear repeatedly that genetic engineering is illegal. Not done, against the law. Geordi doesn't have new eyes cloned, neither does Picard have a new heart cloned. They have to make do with cybernetic implants.

So how did those genetic diseases get cured without genetic engineering?

My own pet theory is that the Eugenics Wars actually succeeded in 'improving' the species. That it was as is implied a biowar, with various factions unleashing genetically engineered plagues and retroviruses on the planet, not to kill, but to reshape. They wanted to recreate mankind in their own image, although most of the people infected never even realised. It's just that when they started having babies, the retailored DNA in their systems, actually meant that their children were selected for in the womb, minimising the chances of short-sightedness, cystic fibrosis, and all the other inherited diseases that we have to live with now.

 

[shanejayell]

I don't think that genetic engineering for curing disease is forbidden, it's more in the case of enhancing humans beyond their norms. I seem to recall a SCE novel addressing that... tho I have no idea if that's TV canon.

 

[captcalhoun]

they said in Dr. Bashir, I Presume that gene therapy for diseases is allowed. it's enhancements like Bashir's and the Jack Pack's that's illegal.

as for Geordi, I dunno, maybe his folks were the kind that accept him disability and all, and didn't want him to be 'normal' like some people will still have disabled kids today when screening shows up the condition.

 

[Stardate]

I understand why the people behind Star Trek was against genetic engineering or eugenics during TOS, was because it was so short after the WWII holocaust and Nazi Masterrace.
However Trek shouldnt be against curing people with geneti diseases using genetic engineering or to build the perfect body. We re not going to see any 5 feet women or 5.2 feet humans in 23th century.

 

[Myasishchev]

I forget if I made the point before, but soon enough society will have to come face to face with real genetically engineered people, and Space Seed will look like Mein Kampf.

It's unfortunate that in, for example, Dr. Bashir, I Presume, the blanket illegality of all "enhancement" procedures was never really questioned--I mean, by his own account, Bashir was probably mentally retarded. Are we to understand that it's bad to be smart, or just bad to have science fix stupidity? Where is the line between legitimate disability and abnormal enhancement drawn? And why must it be drawn? Because of the example of Khan Noonien Singh?

It's not even well-keeping with the mission of Starfleet or the ethics of the Federation. By the time of DS9, humanity will have been surrounded for over three hundred years by billions of people who are objectively better than them--first the Vulcans, who are smarter, faster, stronger, and telepathic, then on down the line till we get to Odo, who is practically an infant cosmic being next to a human. Somehow, however, they still fear the rather limited threat presented by Dr. Julian Augment, who as far as we can tell has been nothing but a boon to society. Functionally, is there any difference in the threat to the human identity, whether it comes from Khan, human superman, or Data, quasi-human supercomputer, or Spock, Vulcan wunderkind? If you're going to illegalize genetic engineering, it's no great logical leap to outlaw Betazoid breeding.

Arik Soong had it right, toward the end of Enterprise--there's nothing intrinsically wrong with genetic engineering, but in retrospect maybe it wasn't such a good idea to turn the aggression dial up to 11.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

However Trek shouldnt be against curing people with geneti diseases using genetic engineering or to build the perfect body. We re not going to see any 5 feet women or 5.2 feet humans in 23th century.

You do realize that for some ethnicities, shorter stature is perfectly normal?

 

[LutherSloan]

One of the DS9-Relaunch novels dealt with Bashir losing his genetic enhancements due to some kind of anomaly.

From what I remember of the book (and it's been 5-6 years at least), it supports the idea, which was hinted at during the TV series, that Bashir was likely mentally retarded, or maybe autistic.

 

[Myasishchev]

One of the DS9-Relaunch novels dealt with Bashir losing his genetic enhancements due to some kind of anomaly.

I didn't know Brannon Braga wrote some of those novels.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

You see, I still think that genetic engineering, all genetic engineering, including medical interventions would be illegal in the Federation given the blanket pronouncements that have been made about it.

It's all very well saying that gene therapy can cure inherited diseases, but we aren't allowed to improve upon the species. It's all very well selecting a child who will be unlikely to develop cancer, but not selecting a child for who can run faster, think quicker and so on.

But the line between medical intervention and eugenics is so blurred that it's impossible to judge correctly. For all we know, autism in some cases is allied to genius, and if we remove autistic tendencies in the gene pool, we may be lessening the likelihood of the next Einstein or Michaelangelo.

It's far easier to impose a blanket ban rather than judge each case individually.

Again, another big message in Star Trek is about evolution, about mankind's betterment and forever ascending beyond what we are to what we could be. Star Trek's view on evolution is a little ill-informed, but back in the real world, evolution works by random chance, trial and error. It's random mutation is a species that gives rise to new species, and those species thrive or decline depending on how well they adapt to the environment, and on how useful the mutation is.

A single human generation will have the majority of offspring identical to their parents. A few will have mutations that have no real effect, or easily corrected, like baldness or short sightedness, even fewer will be fuctionally disabled, and occasionally, just by chance, someone will differ in a way that may help him or her adapt better to the environment, and if that mutation thrives, it will be spread further through successive generations.

Genetic selection, the eradication of inherited diseases, and tendency to push the human genome to a common norm, essentially fixes the human species, limits mutation, and essentially stops evolution in its tracks. Not in keeping with the Trek message if betterment and advancement.

 

[iguana_tonante]

You see, I still think that genetic engineering, all genetic engineering, including medical interventions would be illegal in the Federation given the blanket pronouncements that have been made about it. [...]

But the line between medical intervention and eugenics is so blurred that it's impossible to judge correctly. For all we know, autism in some cases is allied to genius, and if we remove autistic tendencies in the gene pool, we may be lessening the likelihood of the next Einstein or Michaelangelo.

It's far easier to impose a blanket ban rather than judge each case individually.

Sure it's easier, but also foolish. Like any other medical issue, it should be judged individually. Yes, the line is blurred, but it's irrational to impose a complete ban on gene therapy. In-universe, I don't think there is anything to support this view.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

You see, I still think that genetic engineering, all genetic engineering, including medical interventions would be illegal in the Federation given the blanket pronouncements that have been made about it. [...]

But the line between medical intervention and eugenics is so blurred that it's impossible to judge correctly. For all we know, autism in some cases is allied to genius, and if we remove autistic tendencies in the gene pool, we may be lessening the likelihood of the next Einstein or Michaelangelo.

It's far easier to impose a blanket ban rather than judge each case individually.

Sure it's easier, but also foolish. Like any other medical issue, it should be judged individually. Yes, the line is blurred, but it's irrational to impose a complete ban on gene therapy. In-universe, I don't think there is anything to support this view.

Aside from the Eugenics Wars, Khan, the Augments, putting a whole load of irrational fear into Earth people, one which they apparently exported to the rest of the Federation. (Denobulans had no problem with GE)

 

[iguana_tonante]

In-universe, I don't think there is anything to support this view.

Aside from the Eugenics Wars, Khan, the Augments, putting a whole load of irrational fear into Earth people, one which they apparently exported to the rest of the Federation. (Denobulans had no problem with GE)

In the 22nd century, you are right. After that period, tho, I only see arguments against using genetic enhancements to achieve super-human capabilities, not against gene therapy for genetic diseases and congenital defects.

 

[Praetor]

My own pet theory is that the Eugenics Wars actually succeeded in 'improving' the species. That it was as is implied a biowar, with various factions unleashing genetically engineered plagues and retroviruses on the planet, not to kill, but to reshape. They wanted to recreate mankind in their own image, although most of the people infected never even realised. It's just that when they started having babies, the retailored DNA in their systems, actually meant that their children were selected for in the womb, minimising the chances of short-sightedness, cystic fibrosis, and all the other inherited diseases that we have to live with now.

I think this is a good theory. Simply by exposing the 'regular' population to these bioweapons would inherently cause mutation for survival in certain humans, which could in turn cause further developments down the line, ultimately leading to a stronger genome. Brilliant

I do also think that Earth probably exported its fear of genetic engineering as part of Federation policy. I'm sure there's a limit to which they become comfortable, but wholesale rewrites like Bashir make them feel icky.