The Enterprise-F: The Black Sheep Enterprise

[The Wormhole]

I've always felt...

Why the hell would Starfleet care about what career path officers chose, especially in this enlightened age where most shouldn't care about upward mobility as much.

I still feel Starfleet isn't fully military, and such questions of rank and command are looser than today.

The matter of whether Starfleet is or isn't military will never be satisfactorily answered, and this isn't the thread to attempt to do so. However, what none of us can deny is that Starfleet does fight in wars, that is canonical fact. And during wartime, any organization engaged in fighting in the war will want its personnel in positions where they'd be the most effective. And that's before you factor in combat losses creating vacancies which you're going to want to fill with who you can. The bottom line is, there's no way the Enterprise E crew should have stayed together for the duration of the Dominion War. The entire senior staff should have been among the first batch of officers to get promotions at the outbreak of the war, but even if that didn't happen for whatever reason, as the war went on and losses began to add up, there's no way Starfleet in desperate need of experienced command officers would just overlook people like Picard or Riker or even Data and Geordi and let them languish in the job they'd held for the past decade when officers with their experience are needed elsewhere.

 

[Quantum21]

The matter of whether Starfleet is or isn't military will never be satisfactorily answered, and this isn't the thread to attempt to do so. However, what none of us can deny is that Starfleet does fight in wars, that is canonical fact. And during wartime, any organization engaged in fighting in the war will want its personnel in positions where they'd be the most effective. And that's before you factor in combat losses creating vacancies which you're going to want to fill with who you can. The bottom line is, there's no way the Enterprise E crew should have stayed together for the duration of the Dominion War. The entire senior staff should have been among the first batch of officers to get promotions at the outbreak of the war, but even if that didn't happen for whatever reason, as the war went on and losses began to add up, there's no way Starfleet in desperate need of experienced command officers would just overlook people like Picard or Riker or even Data and Geordi and let them languish in the job they'd held for the past decade when officers with their experience are needed elsewhere.

We can answer the question. It's multidisciplinary. So yes, it's a science arm of the UFP, but also military, because it is more efficient out in deep space to put weapons on an already existing ship with labs, and evacuation quarters, etc.

 

[Tuskin38]

It doesn’t really make sense, as there a story where the USS Titan under a Saavik captaincy was the flagship of Federation, over the Ent-B. meaning there’s precedence set.

It wasn’t over the -B it was until the -B launched

 

[Tuskin38]

Proposal: Let's forget the Constitution IXXVIII*$&! Class ever happened and use the real Enterprise F instead

No

 

[The Wormhole]

We can answer the question. It's multidisciplinary. So yes, it's a science arm of the UFP, but also military, because it is more efficient out in deep space to put weapons on an already existing ship with labs, and evacuation quarters, etc.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying at all about wartime Starfleet moving its experienced personnel to positions where they could be more effective rather than allowing them to stay in the same jobs they've held for the past decade. Particularly after combat losses would necessitate a need to have experienced command personnel, and there's a batch just sitting on some other ship that fit the needs perfectly.

 

[Quantum21]

The matter of whether Starfleet is or isn't military will never be satisfactorily answered, and this isn't the thread to attempt to do so. However, what none of us can deny is that Starfleet does fight in wars, that is canonical fact.

Well it answered this. ^^

I'd assume everyone is so well cross-trained they can handle combat jobs, and the automation handles part of the changeover as well.

Of course really it's about paying other actors to take over those roles on screen.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'd assume everyone is so well cross-trained they can handle combat jobs, and the automation handles part of the changeover as well.

Which again, has nothing to do with the point I was making. But it appears you just have rehearsed statements you want to make on this matter rather than engaging in a discussion.

 

[Quantum21]

No

Please mister Matalas can we forget that 80s movie fever-dream retro nightmare fanwank that makes zero sense?

Well it's worth a try. I'm calling the studio.

 

[Quantum21]

Which again, has nothing to do with the point I was making. But it appears you just have rehearsed statements you want to make on this matter rather than engaging in a discussion.

Of course it does.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's war, and there's a need for experienced command officers. Why wouldn't an organization promote experienced personnel to the positions where they're needed instead of leaving them in the same jobs they've held for a decade? You've yet to actually address that point.

 

[FederationHistorian]

It wasn’t over the -B it was until the -B launched

Yes, it was the flagship prior to launch, in 2290. And was the flagship at the Ent-B’s launch as well.

There's no indication that the Ent-B was ever the flagship. Kirk's "death" on the Ent-B was likely a PR disaster for both Starfleet and the Federation, and the Ent-B as the flagship would draw too much attention to that incident.

 

[Lord Garth]

I've always felt...

Why the hell would Starfleet care about what career path officers chose, especially in this enlightened age where most shouldn't care about upward mobility as much.

I still feel Starfleet isn't fully military, and such questions of rank and command are looser than today.

Because the TNG Era isn't an enlightened age. It wants to be an enlightened age, but when you look at the body of evidence across all the series, it isn't.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think the Enterprise-G would've made the perfect Enterprise-B. At least the exterior. The interior looks period-appropriate. More on that later.

But, since I like the design overall, I'm not going to complain about it.

I've never liked the look of the Enterprise-F, even as far back as when it was first introduced in Star Trek Online. To anyone who does, "Different strokes for different folks."

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Here's the "later": IIRC, Terry Matalas has said the design of Starships at the turn of the 25th Century is a direct reaction to how they looked in the late-24th Century. "We're moving too much in the direction of the Enterprise-J too soon!" or something like that. I equate it with how cars before the turn of the 21st Century were starting to become too circular and aerodynamic, like the "jellybean" 1996 Ford Taurus. Then, at the beginning of the 2000s, they re-introduced hard lines. The "hard lines" of the 25th Century would be going back to the TOS Movie look. Now, in the 2020s, they've gone all geometric with the hard lines in cars. So, it would be interesting, in-universe, to see how the 25th Century eventually parallels (i.e. the 2420s).

In the 1970s and 1980s, cars were all about the hard lines, to the point where they all looked like boxes, until the 1986 Ford Taurus was introduced. I think the Galaxy Class is the 24th Century equivalent of the '86 Taurus. It's also what kicked off what we think of as the TNG Era visually, i.e. aerodynamic. So, bringing back the hard lines is the same as reintroducing elements Pre-Taurus/Pre-Galaxy. I compare the TOS Movie Era ships to cars from the mid-'70s to mid-'80s.

If anyone says, "You're glossing over the 70 years between Star Trek VI and TNG!", I'll say, "So does Star Trek!"

 

[Markonian]

In the The Romulan War novels, Administrator T’Pau initiates a law that Vulcans must not remain in positions for decades on end because it leads to stagnation and militarism of society.