The Cloud Minders

[evangelist6589]

This is one of my favs of the entire series and a episode that Star Trek seems to be communicating a political theme as the episode seems to be a satire of a culture probably a third world country of some sort (India, Vietnam)? In this episode the Troglytes are treated very poorly and inhumanly by the intellectual Stratos dwellers. The leadership of the planet (I agree with Spock) is run very poorly. Even in our culture such tactics and leadership is not used. Everyone is given an equal chance, however the rich have an easier time getting into high profile schools which often helps secure a high paying job, but regardless those not rich can still attend school, just it will be harder for them, but at least they can do that, unlike the opportunities the Troglytes had.

The acting was decent and its a shame that Jeff Corey nor Diana Ewing appeared in any other episodes, nor in any Twilight Zone episodes. I do not understand why numerous times good actors only appear in one episode, however these actors in my POV are not as good as the actors in the Requiem for Methuselah episode however James Daly was in the episode A Stop at Willoughby which I plan to watch again.

 

[Timo]

Even in our culture such tactics and leadership is not used. Everyone is given an equal chance, however the rich have an easier time getting into high profile schools which often helps secure a high paying job, but regardless those not rich can still attend school, just it will be harder for them, but at least they can do that, unlike the opportunities the Troglytes had.

Then there's the other sort of western culture where money can't buy you superior education, and everybody is truly equal in opportunity and circumstance...

It's a fun episode, and not even a completely absurd caricature at that. When a space colony is founded on a tabula rasa planet, setups like the one we see might really start emerging: some of the early colonists have the practical upper hand due to some technical detail (say, they thawed the cryosleeping settlers, or they had the key to the weapons or medicines locker), and use it to secure absolute rule over the rest, for generations to come.

The dialogue leaves it uncertain whether the locals are of the human species, and whether they think of themselves as natives or colonists - and if they are colonists, what their culture of origin might be. Certainly they have been around for longer than Earth humans have had starflight (if McCoy's speculation about evolutionary changes approximates the truth), but that doesn't preclude colonization from Earth since various parties are known to have provided starlift for Earthlings in ancient times...

It is notable that the planet is well known, well visited, and a steady supplier of a commodity the UFP purchases - and a member of the United Federation of the Planets, as confirmed many times in the dialogue. Despite this, the planet has a strong culture of slavery. Is it a question of the visitors turning a blind eye, or approving of the practice? Or simply of there being very little practical chance for any visitor to witness the Troglyte situation?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ssosmcin]

I do not understand why numerous times good actors only appear in one episode.

Apparently, according to Ralph Senesky's blog, they had a general policy to not reuse guest actors. Of course, there were major exceptions like Mark Lenard, Lawrence Montaigne and Diana Muldaur, among others, but that would be the reason.

Compare that to the Quinn Martin series where they would reuse the same actors to the point of absurdity.

 

[scotpens]

"The Cloud Minders"? Meh. One of the duller, more preachy episodes. Metropolis on a budget.

It is notable that the planet is well known, well visited, and a steady supplier of a commodity the UFP purchases - and a member of the United Federation of the Planets, as confirmed many times in the dialogue. Despite this, the planet has a strong culture of slavery. Is it a question of the visitors turning a blind eye, or approving of the practice? Or simply of there being very little practical chance for any visitor to witness the Troglyte situation?

Not slavery per se, since we see no evidence that Troglytes are treated as chattel property. We don't know what policy, if any, the Federation has regarding member planets with rigid and strongly entrenched social class divisions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Caste based discrimination is actually forbidden under Federation law.

 

[T'Girl]

Not slavery per se, since we see no evidence that Troglytes are treated as chattel property. We don't know what policy, if any, the Federation has regarding member planets with rigid and strongly entrenched social class divisions.

Droxine said that the Troglytes did the mining, but also they tilled the soil, therefor they're not all miners, some are farmers. Vanna left the mines for a time to work as a servant. We also saw guards/police too. If a young person has the option of farming, mining or some other occupation, then there is no caste system.

I think what they did have was a social class system.

^ Caste based discrimination is actually forbidden under Federation law.

In the 23rd century?

The dialogue leaves it uncertain whether the locals are of the human species

My impression is that they weren't Humans, but humanoid aliens.

Diana Ewing

I find it interesting that Diana Ewing and Zoe Saldana have very similar physical forms and apparently Spocks in two different universe find that form appealing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Caste based discrimination is actually forbidden under Federation law.

In the 23rd century?

Sure, why not? There's no indication that the prohibition against castes is something the Federation only recently adopted. As far as we know, they always had it. There's certainly no proof they didn't, anyway.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, it would probably take some pretty extreme examples of caste-based nastiness to convince Earth, with its own long traditions on caste systems, to adopt a contrary stance. The case of Ardana might have been a turning point, not in terms of moral outrage as such, but in terms of the repressed castes for a rare once breaking out of the system (a somewhat likely consequence of Kirk's visit) and thus forcing a change.

Both "slavery" and "caste system" are indeed inaccurate descriptions of the type of repression on Ardana. What would be a better term? Classical class society would allow, if not upward, then at least downward movement. But the Troglytes are reputed to be biologically inferior (even if it's just the zenite gas in reality), a belief that would strongly speak against class mobility of any sort.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

But the Troglytes are reputed to be biologically inferior (even if it's just the zenite gas in reality)

Probably the Troglytes who don't work the zenite mines also consider the ones who do to be "inferior." The majority of the Troglytes likely work elsewhere and aren't expose to the gas, the percentage of any society that is employed in mining tends to be small.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

however James Daly was in the episode A Stop at Willoughby which I plan to watch again.

Push push push, Williams, push push push!

 

[Timo]

Probably the Troglytes who don't work the zenite mines also consider the ones who do to be "inferior." The majority of the Troglytes likely work elsewhere and aren't expose to the gas, the percentage of any society that is employed in mining tends to be small.

Good point - but are we seeing a "society" here? Or just one palace being fed by the necessary serfs but running a massive and profitable mining business on the side?

"Troglyte" seems to be a name that catches our heroes by surprise - as if it were a local name (establishing these people as either former Earthlings, or then fans of the Earth culture like the Platonians) or something the UT cooked up without asking. If it applies categorically to these people, it sort of establishes them predominantly as cave dwellers. Although farmers might well live in caves, too...

Didn't Asimov use a more or less similar setup of a sky city surrounded by a rather compact settlement of repressed masses in one of his early books? Currents of Space? The Stars, Like Dust?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[feek61]

I do not understand why numerous times good actors only appear in one episode.

Apparently, according to Ralph Senesky's blog, they had a general policy to not reuse guest actors. Of course, there were major exceptions like Mark Lenard, Lawrence Montaigne and Diana Muldaur, among others, but that would be the reason.
.

I think the policy was to not use the same actor more than once during the same season. A good number of actors were used in different roles in other seasons and since "The Cloud Minders" was a 3rd season episode; perhaps the opportunity just was not there for the actor.

 

[Vandervecken]

I like this episode, but there is some really atrocious acting by some of the trog actors, making it look like a really poor Dr. Who (old series) episode at times. But Plasus and Kirk in the mine? F'ing superb stuff.

 

[Push The Button]

I like this episode, but there is some really atrocious acting by some of the trog actors, making it look like a really poor Dr. Who (old series) episode at times. But Plasus and Kirk in the mine? F'ing superb stuff.

Shatner and Jeff Corey really had it cranked up to 11 in those mine scenes.

 

[evangelist6589]

however James Daly was in the episode A Stop at Willoughby which I plan to watch again.

Push push push, Williams, push push push!

Oh yeah the old man drove him crazy to the point he would dream and then jumped off the train! Crazy.

 

[evangelist6589]

I do not understand why numerous times good actors only appear in one episode.

Apparently, according to Ralph Senesky's blog, they had a general policy to not reuse guest actors. Of course, there were major exceptions like Mark Lenard, Lawrence Montaigne and Diana Muldaur, among others, but that would be the reason.

Compare that to the Quinn Martin series where they would reuse the same actors to the point of absurdity.

Or watch the Three Stooges and you see the same actors appearing again, and again, and again, and again... Even in the movies some if the actors show up again and again and again.

 

[Commishsleer]

Bottom 5 episode for me.
Can't stand Droxine. Can't think why Spock would like her.

Never want to see her again. Except maybe in a different character.

 

[T'Girl]

Or watch the Three Stooges and you see the same actors appearing again, and again, and again, and again.

In the George Clooney movie From Dusk to Dawn, Cheech Marin appeared in three separate roles, spread through the movie.

"Troglyte" seems to be a name that catches our heroes by surprise ...

Spock knew of the term Troglyte prior to he and Kirk beaming down.

Although farmers might well live in caves, too ...

Might make more sense if they lived close to their fields on the surface.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But the Troglytes are reputed to be biologically inferior (even if it's just the zenite gas in reality)

Probably the Troglytes who don't work the zenite mines also consider the ones who do to be "inferior." The majority of the Troglytes likely work elsewhere and aren't expose to the gas, the percentage of any society that is employed in mining tends to be small.

Is there any evidence that there even are Troglytes who don't work down the mines? I don't remember there being any.

 

[T'Girl]

^ Droxine referred to the Troglytes as the people who worked the mines and tilled the soil.

Miners and farmers. We heard of Trogs' being serviants too.