The Chief of the Boat (?)

[Wingsley]

In "Mirror, Mirror", Paul Kellett played Farrell, "Kirk's Henchman", and it was fairly clear from his appearance during the discussion that Farrell was supposed to be a senior NCO aboard the I.S.S. Enterprise in order to serve as Kirk's right-hand man.

I'm wondering what Farrell's counterpart would look like aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. If we assume that enlisted ranks are employed aboard TOS-era Federation starships (there does seem to be some evidence of this), and that someone like Farrell would probably be the ship's top NCO (often called the "chief of the boat" in modern submariner terms), what would that person and his/her role look like? Another jumpsuited grunt below decks, or maybe someone wearing officer's uniform while serving on the Bridge, as Rand, Tamara and Mears did among others? Would this COB have a bridge station? And what would the COB's position be called in Starfleetese?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There was a Chief Petty Officer (Garrison) in "The Cage," but it's unclear if he was the actual COB.

 

[danellis]

Wasn't O'Brien a Master Chief Petty Officer?

The real-world title and styling of this person in the surface fleet is Command Master Chief Petty Officer. I would've thought this is the one StarFleet would be most likely to use: although they could of course use Regimental Sergeant Major, just to be different lol

My understanding of his duties would be much like the first officer's: interface between the captain and enlisted/non-com crew.

dJE

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wasn't O'Brien a Master Chief Petty Officer?

No, he was a Senior CPO.

 

[Chaos Descending]

^^^ Where was this established?

As I am a former sailor myself, anything that nods to the Navy and its traditions is right up my alley. So I wouldn't mind knowing.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

In "Mirror, Mirror", Paul Kellett played Farrell, "Kirk's Henchman", and it was fairly clear from his appearance during the discussion that Farrell was supposed to be a senior NCO aboard the I.S.S. Enterprise in order to serve as Kirk's right-hand man...

Something I never noticed before, until I looked at that picture was the other Vulcan behind Spock

 

[T'Girl]

The submarine COB is a position, not a rate as such. In the US Air Force the "First Sergeant" is responsible for the morale, welfare, discipline and conduct of all the enlisted members and is the chief adviser to the commander concerning their enlisted force.

My knowledge of things naval is less than perfect, however aboard the Enterprise, the person we seem to be describing would be the "Master Chief."

Aboard a ship the size of the Enterprise Dee with presumably several hundred enlisted personnel, O'Brien couldn't have been the Master Chief and still have been a transporter operator, he wouldn't have had the time.

.

 

[Wingsley]

There is an interesting section on rank near the bottom of O'Brien's article on Memory Alpha. According to that article, in DS9's "Shadowplay", he was referred to as a "Senior Chief Specialist". O'Brien was originally referred to as a CPO in TNG's "Family".

I suppose one of the most obvious ways to approach this issue would be to ask what term would be used by Starfleet personnel for this senior NCO position aboard a starship? and go from there. I don't see "chief of the boat" as fitting well in TOS. Too military and too seagoing. So if Captain Kirk wanted to call Farrell to discuss some important ship's business, what title would Kirk use when he accessed the intercom? ("Kirk to Farrell" would work, of course. But if Kirk wanted to access Farrell's office, what would it be called? "Kirk to what?"

NOTE: I've never served in the military, but I wanted to see if there would be some way to take naval terminology and de-militarize it somewhat without loosing the meaning. There may be some clues in the Wikipedia articles on SEAs and Command Master Chiefs, but I don't want to botch the language.

 

[Chaos Descending]

The submarine COB is a position, not a rate as such. In the US Air Force the "First Sergeant" is responsible for the morale, welfare, discipline and conduct of all the enlisted members and is the chief adviser to the commander concerning their enlisted force.

My knowledge of things naval is less than perfect, however aboard the Enterprise, the person we seem to be describing would be the "Master Chief."

Aboard a ship the size of the Enterprise Dee with presumably several hundred enlisted personnel, O'Brien couldn't have been the Master Chief and still have been a transporter operator, he wouldn't have had the time.

.

You have it mostly right. The only correction I would give you is that the Naval equivalent is Command Master Chief (Petty Officer) (usually abbreviated CMC). A "Master Chief" (with no Command prefixing it) is a regular rank. Command Master Chief is a position that can be held by someone with the rank of Master Chief Petty Officer.

 

[CoveTom]

This gets more confusing because of the fact that at some point Gene Roddenberry apparently declared that Starfleet has no enlisted personnel; just officers. Hence the fact that the term "Starfleet officers" is used to refer to Starfleet personnel in general. Why he wanted this to be the case, I have no idea. And once he was no longer in control, it definitely fell by the wayside.

Even O'Brien, though, originally wore the rank pins of Lieutenant. I do not recall how O'Brien was depicted in "Family," but I do remember Brannon Braga saying that he suddenly "demoted" O'Brien to non-comm in "Realm of Fear" because he wanted Barclay, who was a Lieutenant Junior Grade, to be able to give him an order. Wikipedia claims that episode to be the first time O'Brien did not wear Lieutenant's rank pins.

 

[Wingsley]

O'Brien was identified as a CPO in TNG's "Family". It was in the transporter room scene when Worf's foster-parents arrived.

You're right about the contradictions involving O'Brien, and Roddenberry's apparent jaundiced eye toward enlisted ranks. One retcon-theory suggests that non-comms wear rank pins like officers, but of a slightly different color.

My question: on a ship with about 400 crew as we see in TOS, would the COB have to be a Command Master Chief, or is a unit of that size small enough for a Master Chief or Senior Chief to serve in that capacity?

 

[T'Girl]

the term "Starfleet officers" is used to refer to Starfleet personnel in general

The way I've (kind of half assed) reconciled this is, Gene Roddenberry used to be a police officer, all police officers regardless if a officer, sergeant or trooper/patrolman are a "officer." It's something similar with Starfleet. O'Brien is a chief petty officer, but even if he were a specialist fifth class, he'd also be a "Starfleet Officer."

 

[Wingsley]

Yeah, NCO's are officers anyway. Just non-commissioned officers!

 

[SchwEnt]

This gets more confusing because of the fact that at some point Gene Roddenberry apparently declared that Starfleet has no enlisted personnel; just officers. Hence the fact that the term "Starfleet officers" is used to refer to Starfleet personnel in general. Why he wanted this to be the case, I have no idea. And once he was no longer in control, it definitely fell by the wayside.

I believe it goes back to TMoST book.
GR envisioned that everyone aboard the Enterprise was fully qualified astronaut. Back in the 1960s, being an astronaut meant being an officer. All the NASA astronauts at that time were officers (or had been).

So in that respect, it's not as ridiculous as it might appear to have an "all officer" complement.

 

[scotpens]

. . .I believe it goes back to TMoST book.
GR envisioned that everyone aboard the Enterprise was fully qualified astronaut. Back in the 1960s, being an astronaut meant being an officer. All the NASA astronauts at that time were officers (or had been).

And that, at least in the case of the original seven Mercury astronauts, was because they were selected from the ranks of Air Force and Navy test pilots (except John Glenn, who was a Marine). It’s also quite probable that GR didn’t care for the implied class distinction between officers and enlisted personnel. On the subject of the Enterprise having such roomy crew accommodations, he was quoted in David Gerrold’s The World of Star Trek as saying (paraphrasing from memory), “The services today have always annoyed me, putting up enlisted men like cattle.”

 

[J.T.B.]

My question: on a ship with about 400 crew as we see in TOS, would the COB have to be a Command Master Chief, or is a unit of that size small enough for a Master Chief or Senior Chief to serve in that capacity?

The rate (rank) is "Master Chief Petty Officer," pay grade E-9. "Command" refers to the position, so the Command Master Chief is a MCPO who is serving in the capacity of senior enlisted advisor to the CO of a particular vessel or unit. An E-8 in the same position is a "Command Senior Chief."

In the US Navy, destroyers with ~300 personnel generally have Command Master Chief, while I believe these days smaller vessels like frigates, less than 200 complement, have an E-8 Command Senior Chief.

--Justin

 

[Chaos Descending]

True, the Command Senior Chief program did kick off around 2005 (IIRC) so I would assume that all the Small Boys would have replaced CMCs with CSCs by now.

 

[JoeD80]

This gets more confusing because of the fact that at some point Gene Roddenberry apparently declared that Starfleet has no enlisted personnel; just officers. Hence the fact that the term "Starfleet officers" is used to refer to Starfleet personnel in general. Why he wanted this to be the case, I have no idea. And once he was no longer in control, it definitely fell by the wayside.

. . .I believe it goes back to TMoST book.
GR envisioned that everyone aboard the Enterprise was fully qualified astronaut. Back in the 1960s, being an astronaut meant being an officer. All the NASA astronauts at that time were officers (or had been).

And that, at least in the case of the original seven Mercury astronauts, was because they were selected from the ranks of Air Force and Navy test pilots (except John Glenn, who was a Marine). It’s also quite probable that GR didn’t care for the implied class distinction between officers and enlisted personnel. On the subject of the Enterprise having such roomy crew accommodations, he was quoted in David Gerrold’s The World of Star Trek as saying (paraphrasing from memory), “The services today have always annoyed me, putting up enlisted men like cattle.”

Well the officer/enlisted question is mentioned in the season one writer's guide for the original series:

Speking of the starship USS Enterprise, is it a completely military arrangement?

Semi-military, but without being heavily authoritarian. For example, we will not be aware of "officers" and "enlisted men" categories. And we will avoid saluting and other annoying medieval leftovers. On the other hand, we do keep a flavor of Naval usage and terminology to help encourage believability and identification by the audience. After all, our own Navy today still retains remnants of Nelson and Drake.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Also remember that GR served in the Army Air Corps, which eventually morphed into the Air Force, and speaking as an Air Force vet myself, the Navy enlisted ranks can be about as confusing as Chinese algebra.

There may well have been an element of "screw this" in his decision to just make everyone an officer and move on to the next problem.

 

[Wingsley]

Whether there was or not, Losira seemed to reveal a hint of that Chinese algebra making its way into TOS in the form of "Watkins, John B." who served as an "Engineer, Grade 4". This would seem to suggest (loosely) that Engineer Watkins was an E-4, or Petty Officer, 3rd Class, equal to Corporal or Senior Airman.

There was, of course, the remote possibility that Watkins could have been a WO-4, aka a Chief Warrant Officer, but he seemed a little young for that.

The chief distinction between TOS' jumpsuited enlisted men and the uniformed officers would seem to be officers are generalists, while enlisted personnel are specialists. (There do seem to be some exceptions, such as Spock, McCoy and Scotty, all highly specialized officers.)