DumbDumb2007
Commander
Should the attack on Earth by the Xindi have included Vulcan ? It would have made the Vulcans let some hot air out of their shirts and help Earth a more technology wise.
The attack on Earth : Should it have included Vulcan ?
- Thread starter DumbDumb2007
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You also have to remember that the only reason Earth was attacked was because humans were the driving force behind the Federation, which is what defeated the Sphere-builders. Why waste lots of resources nuking everyone when you can just take out the one important factor in the whole process.
Besides, those aliens could also see forwards and backwards in potential timelines, so they likely saw that destroying Earth would do the trick for them.
Besides, those aliens could also see forwards and backwards in potential timelines, so they likely saw that destroying Earth would do the trick for them.
Nah, I think part of what endeared Archer to the Vulcans is that he also saved them. Hard for them to ignore that one. 
hellsgate
Commodore
There should have been SOMETHING done to Vulcan by the Sphere-Builders or the Suliban. It would've made for a more believable story. The Vulcans would've been taken down a peg & gotten off Earth's back, perhaps bringing the reunificationist faction into play from Romulus to curb the Nas'gul & General Vosk (or Captain Braxton who I still believe might've been future guy but the writers swerved into the other timeline in the 40's & had to think of something on-the-fly due to management & the ratings.)
But why expend tons of resources destroying the whole nest when you can easily just destroy the one important ant?
That's what I liked about the ENT S3 plot (although not much else): the definition of "surgical strike" varies by the scale of things. If it's just the future of Marty McFly at stake, it will do to reposition one sports almanac. OTOH, when the future of the galaxy is being swayed, "surgical" means blowing up one tiny, seemingly mostly harmless planet. Sure, it's still blowing up a planet - but it is made to sound like peanuts, while it has immense consequences.
The Guardian ploy of ENT S3 sounds much more plausible than the Borg intervention of ST:FC. The Borg could have blown up the whole Earth, too - there was no particular need for their finesse. But perhaps the Borg have too much of professional pride to do it the easy and surefire way?
Timo Saloniemi
The Guardian ploy of ENT S3 sounds much more plausible than the Borg intervention of ST:FC. The Borg could have blown up the whole Earth, too - there was no particular need for their finesse. But perhaps the Borg have too much of professional pride to do it the easy and surefire way?
Timo Saloniemi
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
There's two different motivations. The sphere builders wanted the Federation out of the picture. Militarily speaking, the Federation couldn't really hold off a full scale Borg attack. The Borg wanted to assimilate Earth, not destroy it.
But by assimilating Earth in the past, the Borg lose their reasons for wanting to assimilate it to begin with. (Though time travel on Trek never seems to work that way). Cochrane-Era Earth wouldn't seem like a viable culture to absorb. Remember 7 of 9 said the Borg found the Kazon unworthy of assimilating.
But by assimilating Earth in the past, the Borg lose their reasons for wanting to assimilate it to begin with. (Though time travel on Trek never seems to work that way). Cochrane-Era Earth wouldn't seem like a viable culture to absorb. Remember 7 of 9 said the Borg found the Kazon unworthy of assimilating.
Agreed all around-I always thought the same thing. It was supposed to be a focal strike at the key players who the Sphere-Builders felt could harm them the most down the road.
No, of course it shouldn't have included Vulcan, because that would have been WAY too complicated for the viewing audience.. imagine, a show that actually shows an interwoven complicated plot, with the good guys actually having 2 seperate shades and coming together to work together.. can you imagine all of that turmoil, all the interesting things that could have happened? For people who watch science fiction? Insanity, thank god they kept it so retardedly basic good guys VS bad guys with absolutely NO room for a different interpretation or something that isn't COMPLETELY black and white.. phew, that might have been rough. Thank god we ended up with episodes like Extinction and Carpenter Street, otherwise Joe Average viewer who WASN'T WATCHING THE F$#^ING SHOW ANYWAYS MIGHT GET CONFUSED. GOD FORBID ANY THINKING GETS INVOLVED IN THE F$%#NG SHOW, IT MIGHT LOSE THAT TRENDY INTELLIGENT UPN AUDIENCE WHO ENJOYS WATCHING FAT BLACK WOMEN.. ugh, the whole f%#^ng thing just disgusts me, I mean really.
I think simply attacking Earth would acheive the desired result. If they targeted Vulcan as well, it would strengthen the proto-Federation relationship and supply both races with a common enemy. The object was to single out the founders of the Federation... strongly implying Humans were responsible for that. As it turned out, Starfleet had to mostly go it alone because there was nothing at stake for the Vulcans. In fact, leaving us to a violent end would free up resources for the High Council! No pesky humans to prove aid to anymore. They go back into being a non interferring, introvert society... aside from the occasional argument over the fence with their Andorian neighbours. Easier to conqueor possible allies warring among themselves by taking away something they don't even realize they have.
Pretty ironic that something similar played out among the fanbase while Enterprise was on the air, if you ask me... (but that's enough of my personal grievance about the state of the franchise).
Pretty ironic that something similar played out among the fanbase while Enterprise was on the air, if you ask me... (but that's enough of my personal grievance about the state of the franchise).
I completly agree with you. The vulcans should not have been involved and whose to say that they would have entered the expanse anyway? Soval made it very clear that vulcan did not want to send anymore ships into the expanse because of what happened to the first two.
Also, from a point of drama, if you have the Xindi attack Vulcan as well as Earth, then Vulcan is doing to quite reasonably send its own ships into the Expanse, and it would be extremely hard for none of them to fly alongside the Enterprise. The knock-on effect, then, is that it's not so urgent for The Enterprise to succeed, since if they can't teach the Xindi what-for, it's all right, one of the other 24 ships sent in after them might. Plus, if there's multiple leads, you don't have to make as tough a decision where to go; you can detach a ship or two to investigate possible leads and gather when something is found.
Similarly if -- say -- the Enterprise gets the sort of bashing actually done in ... was it ``Azati Prime''? The one setting up ``The Forgotten'' ... well, then it's not so serious. They have two dozen ships to draw on for parts, or for that matter to just abandon ship and carry on in the tougher, better-armed, better-defended ships with the more-experienced crews.
So as a result, you have less dramatic story if Vulcan was attacked. It's a tougher season if you have one lone ship in the whole expanse.
Similarly if -- say -- the Enterprise gets the sort of bashing actually done in ... was it ``Azati Prime''? The one setting up ``The Forgotten'' ... well, then it's not so serious. They have two dozen ships to draw on for parts, or for that matter to just abandon ship and carry on in the tougher, better-armed, better-defended ships with the more-experienced crews.
So as a result, you have less dramatic story if Vulcan was attacked. It's a tougher season if you have one lone ship in the whole expanse.
Arrogant bastards attacked Earth with the prototype instead of the real deal, telegraphing the larger attack. Otherwise, the plan should not have failed; Earth would be dust and the Federation unfulfilled. The galaxy would have been transformed as planned. Arrogance is a bad thing.
One wonders... Was the first weapon really just a prototype for the later one? Or was it in fact supposed to do the job all by itself?
I mean, it should have been capable of offing Earth easily enough: there was nothing the Earthlings could do to stop the weapon from slagging their cities. It was just an internal malfunction that halted the carnage; the arrogance might have lain in trusting that a single weapon would complete the mission without hiccups, but that single weapon might well have been extensively tested before being wielded against Earth.
Perhaps the Guardians claimed there was some sort of a time limit on the attack? After all, just a year later, Earth was already in the process of assembling the Federation. The Xindi would have dutifully hastened their own schedule at the bidding of their masters, with the witnessed results.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, it should have been capable of offing Earth easily enough: there was nothing the Earthlings could do to stop the weapon from slagging their cities. It was just an internal malfunction that halted the carnage; the arrogance might have lain in trusting that a single weapon would complete the mission without hiccups, but that single weapon might well have been extensively tested before being wielded against Earth.
Perhaps the Guardians claimed there was some sort of a time limit on the attack? After all, just a year later, Earth was already in the process of assembling the Federation. The Xindi would have dutifully hastened their own schedule at the bidding of their masters, with the witnessed results.
Timo Saloniemi
That it was a probe comes from Futureman and the Xindi council. I know it doesn't make sense to send a probe, or a prototype to strike the final blow at a target. Since it would have taken some time to destroy Earth cities with that weapon, you’d think it would have been accompanied by other ships to protect it from a counterattack, right?
The Xindi had no reason to suspect that Earth would ever learn who attacked them. SF had never been to the Expanse, were unaware of the Xindi.
It was only due to FG warning Archer that clued him in.
Hadn't the second Enterprise been wandering around the Expanse for a Hundred years? Anyway, I think you're correct.
