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Technobabble actually becomes less of a problem in Trek once Michael Pillar left.

Jayson1

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This is a opinion I have had for awhile but I have never talked about it.. I think there is a view that "Voyager" was a big technoabble show but I never felt that was the case after season 2 and I would say the same thing about "DS9" after it's season 2.
It even goes a little more deeper and I would even say the overal language of those shows start to change as well were you start to hear more contemporary style of speech and less of the over stylized speech on "TNG" were it felt like everyone had a thesaurus and loved to use it.
As for Pillar I have read about how writers said he was big on it. I think the idea was he felt it made the characters come off as more smart and professional. I actually think Pillar was kind of right and I also enjoy the stylized speech but I also enjoyed the new ways as well when we say Behr take over on "DS9" and Jeri Taylor and later Braga on "Voyager." Pillar's way made the writing feel a little more clever but Behr's way made the characters feel more emotional and easier to relate to.
Back to "Voyager." I think their are 2 reasons why it gets a bad rap in this department I don't think it deserves. One thing is the show had certain flaws that make some either dislike the show or like it a little but still see it as inferior. Once you got that opinion people sometimes make arguments based more on emotion than logic.
The second reason is because "Voyager" had the pointless space battle syndrome that really hurts many episodes. I think the ship was in more pointless battles than any other Trek show. Granted fake danger wasn't exactly new to Trek. The Enterprise on "TOS" was always on the verge of blowing up every week and the transporters never worked except when they needed them to work. On "TNG" you had encounters with space anomilies or other kinds of danger. Sometimes it would be another spaceship but most of those seemed to be resolved by a speech from Picard.
"Voyager" though would encounter aliens who were always angry and hostile even if they didn't have any logical reason to be. Way to many times this would end up in a pointless battle were you feel like everyone is just going through the emotions. You would hear all the classic space battle talk. "shields down to 50%" "Fire phasers" "Tansporters are down, or warp speed is not functioning." I think this battle speak is sometimes confused with the more technoabble stuff like "I'm going to run a positronic scan on the mylithium hull fragments to see if I can locate any neutron charge particles on it. Anyways that is my views.

Jason
 
The funny thing about technobabble is that Roddenberry was so against he even made a rule in the TOS Writer's Guide forbidding it. And then the other shows use it so much it's become a staple of the franchise.
 
Back to "Voyager." I think their are 2 reasons why it gets a bad rap in this department I don't think it deserves. One thing is the show had certain flaws that make some either dislike the show or like it a little but still see it as inferior. Once you got that opinion people sometimes make arguments based more on emotion than logic.
I don't think that the criticism is unfair, although the level of technobabble may not have been unwarranted. Voyager's stories were structured around scientific discoveries and the effects they had on humans. To that end, writers needed to fill in the gaps that might explain how the current level of technology could be hindered by or could help them respond to whatever oddity they had encountered. The problem with technobabble--Piller Filler, as writers called it--is that it obscured the story, taking it towards a resolution without giving a solid sense of what was happening.
 
My take on technobabble when it was badly misused is that it goes against that writing concept of "show instead of tell." Instead of having characters trying to find clever ways out of a problem you can just solve it by someone pressing buttons and telling us what the tech is doing to solve the problem.
Same thing with medical tricorders or hyposprays. Instead of getting a medical diagnois by looking at a hand device or solving a problem ith a hyperspray I would have liked to seen more real world ways of doctoring but of course with slight tweeks since the show is in the future. That means things like X Rays or more surgery scenes kind of like you would see on something like the "X Files" with Scully.
Instead of button pushing I would have liked to seen people use actualy tools to fix problems.
I think one thing that hurt TNG and Voyager is the writers on a whole were not sci-fi fans so they were less intrested in the details of their sci-fi plots and were mostly just intrested in exploring the characters. Which is a good thing for the most part because it did give them depth even though that could sometimes be hurt by the reset button being pushed but at least alot of the stuff would be revisited in future episodes.
The bad thing though it made the shows feel lacking when it came to action and adventure. I have even heard writers talk about how when they wrote a fight scene they didn't put much thought into and were more intrested in getting back to the characters.
For me I would prefer it if they took the aproach of something like "Stargate" or "Buffy" were you put as much though in the action/advenure as you did the character drama and interaction. It didn't have to be one or the other.
"DS9" I think would also have these problems as well but what I think made it not quite the issue it was on the other shows is that it always felt less of a sci-fi show as the other Treks. Fewer high concept idea's or weird aliens. It always felt more grounded, at least by Trek standards. I would imagine it's station setting had lots to do with that and the fact that I think Steven Ira Behr hated TNG. He did leave after just one season on that show as a staff writer and I think he has talked about how unhappy he was when he was on the show.

Jason
 
I think one thing that hurt TNG and Voyager is the writers on a whole were not sci-fi fans so they were less intrested in the details of their sci-fi plots and were mostly just intrested in exploring the characters.
No, what hurt TNG and Voyager is the belief that there always had to be some sort of science thing going on to justify the show as science fiction and they were never satisfied with having a perfectly good action show or character story carry itself. Okay, there were quite a few action shows that did fine on their own without science stuff, or at least the science stuff meshed organically with the plot as opposed to being hamfisted in, but all the Treks in general could have had a lot more faith in their character stories without tossing in a science subplot, especially since in most cases the science plot is just malfunctioning technology spelling doom for the ship.

But then, when there's a rule preventing inter-character conflict, I guess that doesn't leave very many options, does it?
 
I would much rather have a limited set of tools and have the problem in the episode be resolved by being creative with what you have to work with. My biggest issue with Technobabble is that it gets Exponential- every show seems to introduce new types of energy pulses.

I do hate it when a horrible problem is solved by pushing a few buttons - the equivalent of Harry Potter waving his wand and shouting some bad fake latin.

I did notice that the technobabble did drop off in the later shows and never knew why...
 
I agree, the treknobabble is heaviest in the first season of Voyager. Episodes like Parallax and Time & Again are really heavy on it. Then it seems to go away, except for when the Doctor is bragging to everyone about his brilliance, which can(sometimes) be funny.

In TNG, I think the technobabble became more prevalent as the show wore on. I don't remember much at all in season 1, but I can think of a lot of it in season 6, 7, and even Generations.
 
^ It didn't just come out of the ether. I think people were responding to it. Look at the technical jargon on other shows at the time. ER, Law & Order, CSI, JAG, NCIS, etc. People liked seeing of professionals doing what they do, gleaning insight from their psychologies and moralities in between. It was often interesting figuring out what the problem was even if the fix was just some magical technology. But then isn't that House and other shows too?

It didn't bother me occasionally, but when it became the same thing week after week...and then they started repeating storylines...and retconning things to make it easier for themselves to write easier stories...
 
I would much rather have a limited set of tools and have the problem in the episode be resolved by being creative with what you have to work with. My biggest issue with Technobabble is that it gets Exponential- every show seems to introduce new types of energy pulses.

I do hate it when a horrible problem is solved by pushing a few buttons - the equivalent of Harry Potter waving his wand and shouting some bad fake latin.

I did notice that the technobabble did drop off in the later shows and never knew why...[/QUOTE
^ It didn't just come out of the ether. I think people were responding to it. Look at the technical jargon on other shows at the time. ER, Law & Order, CSI, JAG, NCIS, etc. People liked seeing of professionals doing what they do, gleaning insight from their psychologies and moralities in between. It was often interesting figuring out what the problem was even if the fix was just some magical technology. But then isn't that House and other shows too?

It didn't bother me occasionally, but when it became the same thing week after week...and then they started repeating storylines...and retconning things to make it easier for themselves to write easier stories...
Most of the shows you mentioned came after "TNG" went off the air so I think it is more accurate that TNG inspired them. I think TNG might have been the first of those type of shows.
I'm curious if anyone every watched "Simon and Simon?" That was the show Pillar worked on before he came to TNG so I wonder if they also had a similar style? I did watch the show he made after Trek called "Legend" I think it was. It stared a pre-Stargate Richard Dean Anderson and John Delancie as inventors back in the past. I don't think that show felt overly techy but it's been along time since I saw it so I am not certain.
Jason
 
Stargate Atlantis suffered a lot from technobabble; SG1 was fairly consistent with its use of fictional technologies; and didn't suffer as much. Of star trek, DS9 was fairly good about it after season 2 or 3
 
It can also go too far in the other direction. Like using the "Orb of time" for casual time travel. "Yo Sisko, them ornary Vediks won't let me borrow the Orb. I really wanna know if Dukat was sleeping with my moms. Can YOU just ask them for it? Don't worry captain, the Prophets will keep me from doing any stupid..temporal prime directivewise and what not."

Or


"We got some Chroniton particles stuck to our shield. That should allow us to transport to any time we want, but we only have enough stuck on the hull for 6...maybe 7 jumps. Good thing we'll probably pick the right time and save the day!"
 
"Captain, I've reconfigured our warp field to match the chronometric readings of the Borg sphere."
"Recreate the vortex, Commander"
"Aye sir."

*Enterprise travels back to the future perfectly.*
 
Most of the shows you mentioned came after "TNG" went off the air so I think it is more accurate that TNG inspired them. I think TNG might have been the first of those type of shows.
I'm curious if anyone every watched "Simon and Simon?" That was the show Pillar worked on before he came to TNG so I wonder if they also had a similar style? I did watch the show he made after Trek called "Legend" I think it was. It stared a pre-Stargate Richard Dean Anderson and John Delancie as inventors back in the past. I don't think that show felt overly techy but it's been along time since I saw it so I am not certain.
Jason

Law & Order was 1990, ER 1994, etc. The technobabble started around there in Trek and went on. VOY premiered in 1995. It's the procedural drama. If TV is our contemporary campfire around which we tell tales; technobabble is our contemporary magic, wielded by powerful wizards to cure the sick, mete out justice, and walk the stars.

Tosk, that's a McGuffin, because the tech is just a tool to move along the story. The real problem is when the tech is the story. "Oh no, the Klingons are getting through the shields. Okay, modulate the frequency. We win! Hazaah!"

Again some of that is fine. You're not going to stop a runaway soliton wave with more character development. It's when it isn't even the professionalism of the characters you're admiring but instead are just stuck watching a gobbledygook "filler" episode that there's a problem.
 
Law & Order was 1990, ER 1994, etc. The technobabble started around there in Trek and went on. VOY premiered in 1995. It's the procedural drama. If TV is our contemporary campfire around which we tell tales; technobabble is our contemporary magic, wielded by powerful wizards to cure the sick, mete out justice, and walk the stars.

Tosk, that's a McGuffin, because the tech is just a tool to move along the story. The real problem is when the tech is the story. "Oh no, the Klingons are getting through the shields. Okay, modulate the frequency. We win! Hazaah!"

Again some of that is fine. You're not going to stop a runaway soliton wave with more character development. It's when it isn't even the professionalism of the characters you're admiring but instead are just stuck watching a gobbledygook "filler" episode that there's a problem.
To me I felt the tech stuff started in season 3 of TNG which is intresting because that is the year IMO that Berman Trek as we know it also started, and is also the first season to really be seen as good. That I believe was in 1989 so I would say it and Law and Order might have started it together. By the time ER was on, TNG was going off the air.
I agree about it being used kind of like magic but I think one of the reasons for that is they felt that it might ground weird sci-fi idea's to something more relatable. If they did a episode were a giant hand grabbed the ship like on TOS they proably would have felt people would think it was silly if they didn't come up with some realistic science sounding words to make it feel possible.
Just look at how they did the ghost story in season 7 with Crusher falling for her grandmother's old lover. It couldn't just be a ghost or even just a alien it had to be some kind of plasma techy sounding alien lifeform.

Jason
 
The real problem is when the tech is the story. "Oh no, the Klingons are getting through the shields. Okay, modulate the frequency. We win! Hazaah!"
This is my feeling as well, and what ended up irritating me so much about the later Berman era. All too often the problem that the characters faced was fixed by teching the tech with the tech and reversing the polarity of the tech. Watching people tap on fake consoles and reading out technobabble isn't compelling drama. Neither ER or House based stories on reversing the polarity of anything, or the modern day medical equivalent. They were stories about people solving mysteries, or missing things, or facing pressures doing their jobs. Not coming up with magical solutions to made up tech problems using made up particles. That's the difference.
 
Stargate Atlantis suffered a lot from technobabble; SG1 was fairly consistent with its use of fictional technologies; and didn't suffer as much. Of star trek, DS9 was fairly good about it after season 2 or 3

Ah, but what SG-1 did, and I loved it, was that Carter would start up with a technobabble explanation, and O'Neill would cut her off with "CARTER! In English!" :lol: I'm 100% sure that was a direct poke at Trek.

Another favorite moment was when the captain of the Prometheus (I think) said something like "Prepare to engage the enemy!" And O'Neill said "Why do you say things like that? Teal'c, are you prepared to engage the enemy?"
"I am prepared, O'Neill."
He shrugs at the captain and gives him a look, like "just do it."
:lol:
 
Rick Anderson was the perfect match for that role...for the "100" gag show, they needed an actor about RDA's height to walk around in the greenscreen suit with Judge. So they ended up calling Anderson, who 'complained' the whole time the suit made him look fat! :rofl:
 
I heard O'Neall was originally planned to be as dark as in the movie but RDA said he was only interested in the role if he could make the character more fun.
 
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