Team Abrams, canon and novels

[Procutus]

I have to admit I was a bit surprised to read that Orci and Kurtzman are trying to somehow utilize elements from some of the novels... At least that was the impression I got, reading the Trek Today article. I would think that they'd have enough material to worry about just trying to work in elements from existing canon (TOS and the other four series).

Seriously, I'm more curious to see what nods are given to the other series, names dropped, the mention of an alien race, that type of thing. Specifically, I'm really interested in if they do acknowledge the events of ENT, which would be easier as it's past history as opposed to the other shows.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Specifically, I'm really interested in if they do acknowledge the events of ENT, which would be easier as it's past history as opposed to the other shows.

Supposedly they acknowledge "Enterprise" and the other shows in some general way.

 

[Procutus]

^

Maybe someone picks up a bottle of wine from Chateau Picard!

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I have to admit I was a bit surprised to read that Orci and Kurtzman are trying to somehow utilize elements from some of the novels...
...I would think that they'd have enough material to worry about just trying to work in elements from existing canon (TOS and the other four series)...

I think Orci purposefully wanted to include a fact or two from novels, just to show that the team "knows there stuff" to placate some of the hardcore fans (not that I think he had to do that).

Plus, I don't think it is any harder for Kurtzman and Orci to include a few facts from novels...I'm sure they chose some easy factoids that don't really create a domino effect of change throughout the rest of canon.

It's like the Robert April question. Adding some off-the-cuff-reference to April being the Enterprise's first Captain is a harmless enough idea that really would have no repercussions in trek's future history.

 

[gastrof]

Since the novels themselves didn't, at the time written, violate anything from onscreen, I'd say including bits here and there that come from the novels is a GOOD thing.

If anything, it sort of reinforces the idea that this is the same continuity as before. (Or at least so close to it, pretty much everything will continue to be familar in all future projects.)

Yes, I know the novels have never been canon, but including bits from them certainly doesn't DENY the existing continuity. If anything it DOES reinforce.

You know, if the second movie takes place during the TMP or post-TMP era, and we see the movie Enterprise recreated, there will be even fewer "continuity violations" even where how things look are concerned. Moving on, it'd be possible to leave everything beyond TOS as still locked solidly in place.

Except maybe the "Mirror" episode of ENTERPRISE.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I hope they don't strain too hard on providing fan service, it's already bad enough they have to try to hammer in Nimoy's Spock into the movie.

 

[gastrof]

I hope they don't strain too hard on providing fan service, it's already bad enough they have to try to hammer in Nimoy's Spock into the movie.

Could I ask what it is about STAR TREK that you like? I mean, if you feel they're "hammering" Nimoy into the movie, it sounds like you'll accept just anything under the name "Star Trek". Isn't it the storyline that's been running since the 60s that you like? If so, how can you view Nimoy's involvement as something forced? (Or even unwanted?)

A related point is that Nimoy's Spock isn't being "hammered" in, unless you feel someone else should be playing the "older Spock" character in this story.

Nick Frost, perhaps? (*blinks innocently, then runs*)

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^^ How about telling a new adventure with the young crew of the Enterprise? Why do we need old Spock to do that? To me this just sounds like some convoluted way to "pass the torch" yet again instead of just getting on with it. Besides there have been more than enough time travel adventures in Trek if you ask me.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

I'd say that passing the torch, if done right, is not Contrived, but expected, and perhaps needed.

By including Nimoy, they are acknowledging the original crew, and the original ship.

The writers have stated publicly that when pitching the script, it would not have worked without Nimoy for the story they had created.

The older Spock is likely pivotal.

 

[Saga]

Trek XI has always made me feel uneasy. especially with words like reboot or reimagining being tossed around. the fact that the writers want to respect cannon and use some references from the books, like the name of Kirk's mom, makes me feel a whole lot better about the movie.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I have to admit I was a bit surprised to read that Orci and Kurtzman are trying to somehow utilize elements from some of the novels... At least that was the impression I got, reading the Trek Today article. I would think that they'd have enough material to worry about just trying to work in elements from existing canon (TOS and the other four series).

It's hardly news. The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Besides there have been more than enough time travel adventures in Trek if you ask me.

Maybe the whole movie is seen being played out in an Elderly Spock mind meld? Like the TV show, "Herman's Head"?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I have to admit I was a bit surprised to read that Orci and Kurtzman are trying to somehow utilize elements from some of the novels...I would think that they'd have enough material to worry about just trying to work in elements from existing canon...

It's hardly news. The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

That's a great example of what I mean when I say it's not necessairly difficult to add a few tidbits from books.

George and Winona are two facts that this film could "canonize" without causing huge problems with the existing canon. I'm sure there are many more items from novels that could easily fit canonically into the existing known Trek Universe.

 

[gastrof]

...The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

Actually, the name of Kirk's brother was established in the original series.

I'm not sure if they mentioned it in the episode where he and his wife died, but in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" the android Kirk knew the brother's name and said it aloud, mentioning "Only you call him 'Sam'".

Maybe the whole movie is seen being played out in an Elderly Spock mind meld? Like the TV show, "Herman's Head"?

You know, we could have you sent to Rura Penthe just for mentioning that show in the same conversation as Trek.

 

[M'Sharak]

...The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

Actually, the name of Kirk's brother was established in the original series.

I'm not sure if they mentioned it in the episode where he and his wife died, but in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" the android Kirk knew the brother's name and said it aloud, mentioning "Only you call him 'Sam'".

Yes, the name of James T.'s brother was established in that episode, but not that he was George Samuel, Junior. That their father's name was also George Samuel Kirk was from the novels, as was their mother's name, which is the same thing Therin said.

 

[captcalhoun]

...The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

Actually, the name of Kirk's brother was established in the original series.

I'm not sure if they mentioned it in the episode where he and his wife died, but in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" the android Kirk knew the brother's name and said it aloud, mentioning "Only you call him 'Sam'".

Yes, the name of James T.'s brother was established in that episode, but not that he was George Samuel, Junior. That their father's name was also George Samuel Kirk was from the novels, as was their mother's name, which is the same thing Therin said.

more to the point, Gastrof's misunderstanding that George and Winona are the parents of Sam and Jim and that their names are from novels, which is what Therin meant i believe

 

[ancient]

Wwe already know that he's including kirk's parent's names (as already said). I think this means that long accepted facts from official non-canon materials are being included, which is awesome.

Following canon alone, they could've called Kirk's parents Joe and Martha.

 

[Procutus]

I have to admit I was a bit surprised to read that Orci and Kurtzman are trying to somehow utilize elements from some of the novels... At least that was the impression I got, reading the Trek Today article. I would think that they'd have enough material to worry about just trying to work in elements from existing canon (TOS and the other four series).

It's hardly news. The first names of George Sr and Winona Kirk, the parents of James T. and George Samuel Kirk in ST XI, are from the novels.

Good point. I should've thought of that, knowing that JTK's parents are in this film.

 

[gastrof]

...Gastrof's misunderstanding that George and Winona are the parents of Sam and Jim and that their names are from novels, which is what Therin meant i believe

Nope.

I know the parents names were established in the books, not onscreen, and that the brother's name was established onscreen.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Actually, the name of Kirk's brother was established in the original series.

Never said it wasn't.