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Strength of Star Trek Powers

Most Powerful of the Star Trek Species

  • Federation

    Votes: 24 77.4%
  • Romulan Empire

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Klingon Empire

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • Total voters
    31

jmampilly

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
I have seen in numerous threads speculations regarding the strength of the various interstellar entities in Star Trek. However, I wish to see a single, cohesive thread where all arguments as to the strength of Trek's various species can be put forth. But, please, exclude the Dominion and the Borg. Everyone loves to pick these two species, but, since they are so strong, there is little to speculate on. For additional clarification, we are talking

For me, the ranking is as follows:

1- United Federation of Planets
Because it is an interstellar union rather than an empire, the cultural and technological distinctiveness of all integrated species can be brought forth to maximum potential, for ultimate economic, technological, and cultural development. While TNG gave us the impression that the Federation was a little soft, DS9 showed just what the Federation is possible of when under threat. The Enterprise-D had a glass jaw, but the Galaxies of DS9 were certainly more war-centric. Post-Nemesis, the Federation is most likely king of the kill. As Sloan indicated, after the Dominion War, the Klingons posed no threat to anyone, and the Romulans, whilst were seemingly an equal threat according to Sloan, were certainly shaken up by the Shinzon incident. Regardless, of the Shinzon incident, however, the Post-Nemesis Federation had a highly advanced, large navy, and a greater ability to innovate and produce ships. This is a result of the species integration in spirited desire to advance which appeared prevalent in TNG.

2 Romulan Empire
Post-Nemesis, the Romulans are undoubtedly the second most powerful Empire. The events in Nemesis certainly weakened them, but not in a sufficient manner to severely decrease their power. In DS9 we learned from Sloan that the Romulans were undoubtedly the second most powerful species. They have fairly advanced technological capabilities, and powerful ships. However, the Empire doesn't appear to have the innovative and production capabilities which the Federation has. The weaker innovative capabilities are a result of their oppressive nature, inhibiting the free thought of citizens which contribute to technological development. Their production disadvantage is a result of smaller population, which stems from the Romulan emphasis on subjugation rather than integration.
3- Klingon Empire
Post-Nemesis, the Klingons are undoubtedly the third most powerful state. In DS9, Sloan said they were weak, but the Klingon Empire is so vast, and their fleet so large that even a somewhat weakened Klingon Empire could still not be surpassed by minor species. If not for Sloan's information, I would have put them above the Romulans, because their warlike nature gives them an advantage in conflict. In addition, we get the impression that they have a large fleet stockpiled, although this has been somewhat cut-down by the Dominion War. I don't think they have as strong an ability to innovate as the Federation or Romulans, but their emphasis on war would certainly mean they had a significant amount of resources devoted towards military research.

Cardassian Union
I didn't rank the Cardassians, because I'm not sure if they can be ranked. I got the impression they were a sort of minor power which dumped resources into military assets, with the result being they can sort of play with the major powers. However, in reality they are still a minor power, a species which could easily be brushed aside by any of the "big three".

What do you think? Am I so wrong I should be kicked out of the BBS? Or do you agree?
 
I disagree the Federation were shown as weak in TNG. Having a distaste for war doesn't mean you're not prepared for it.

What are we counting here? I'd say #1 goes to Q.

It's pretty clear the Federation are the most powerful entity in the AQ. I think before the Dominion War the Klingons were #2 before the Romulans but fell to #3 after the war because they took the heavy brunt of the casualties. Similarly the Cardassians were #4 as of mid-run TNG, but then in DS9 showed a gradual decline followed by utter devastation after the war. After the war I think the Breen were #4 or even #3.

And militarily the Ferengi don't rank at all but in terms of influence they are probably #2 right behind the Federation.

Then there are nearby groups that the Federation seems to be concerned about going to war with such as the Zen'kethi where you never get a real gauge on their real threat level.

Also this assumes you don't count certain other entities established to be much more powerful than the Federation in TNG such as the Shelliak and the group from Transfigurations and just happen to be isolationist enough not to have an interstellar presence.
 
The impression I got was that the Federation and the Klingons were basically militarily equal, with one or the other briefly advancing pass the other, but the advantage was short lived.

The Romulans were weaker than both, their empire smaller in size. The Federation and the Klingon could not bring all their assets to bear on the Romulans without stripping defenses from other areas. The Romulans could concentrate the majority of their forces on a single border and effectively attack or defend.

:)
 
^Losing Romulus would no doubt set the RSE back a bit, if it maintlained an Empire through force some worlds might see the destruction of Romulus as an opportunity to rebel which might further weaken the RSE>

The CU came out very badly with it's already resource poor planet in even worse shape and no doubt having to rely on the UFP for long-term help in rebuilding.

The IKE came out badly due in large part to Gowron's foolishness when the Federation and Romulan fleets were sidelined due to the Breen energy dampening weapon.

The Federattion perhaps came out best of those powers, but that doesn't mean it wasn't affected by the war. Sure it might have a more modern fleet but no doubt a smaller fleet than it had when the war started.

It will no doubt take several years for the powers to fully recover from the war and get back to the point the were near the start of the war.
 
What about the Tholians and Gorn? Was their heyday the 22nd and 23rd centuries?

We never really saw much of the Tholians and Gorn, especially after TOS. In any case, I got the impression they were somewhat minor, and that conflicts between the major powers and these species, whilst large for the minor species, was little more than a regional war for the majors.
 
I am under the impression the Tholians are powerful but as of the 24th century have peaceful relations with the Federation.

What about the Saurians, do they count? Clearly much more powerful than the Federation, and also seem to span the galaxy and just ignore everyone weaker than them.

You get the impression from all Star Treks that there are tons of powers around who are much more powerful than the Federation. They just all happen to be really, really isolationist and xenophobic.
 
As rivals, I think the Klingons and the Federation were neck and neck in power and influence.

I think the Klingons might have had a military edge over the Federation over the past years.

In almost every continuity or reality, they defeat or almost defeat the major powers like the Federation, Romulans or the Cardassians.

The Romulans -their power is untested-- they rarely showed their strength like the other powers did, and they always seemed to be in isolation.

I place them a close second behind the Fed and Klingons, but their cloaking device and newer warships is what made them dangerous.

The Cardassians- were potentially a very dangerous power. They could have been completely on the same level as the Federation, except they never had the resources to make it happen.

It looked liked they lagged behind the Fed in resources, industry and technology.

They had one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the AQ, an organized and disciplined military, and a sense of infrastructure.

If they could have plugged that into industrial base with resources, they could have been much more powerful and larger.

That's why they (in their opinion) probably believed they were destined to rule the AQ, even though they had resource problems.
 
The Federation was, indeed, powerful. But it was never as cool as it could've been. Few ship designs were really "impressive." Most of the uniforms designs of the 24th Century kind of sucked. Especially the "dress" uniforms. That's what I like about the reboot, the uniforms look much better, everything's slicker. It's good to know that STARFLEET probably won't lose its "cool" for a long time to come, whatever happens ...
 
As rivals, I think the Klingons and the Federation were neck and neck in power and influence.

I think the Klingons might have had a military edge over the Federation over the past years.

In almost every continuity or reality, they defeat or almost defeat the major powers like the Federation, Romulans or the Cardassians.

True, it does seem at least 20 years ago the Klingons had the edge in military power. Whether that's the case during TNG, I'm not sure. In Heart of Glory they seem like a power in decline, then in the Duras arc we see crippling internal disarray. And the Federation seemed to rapidly advance in weapons technology after the Borg incident, so if they weren't more powerful in TNG season 1 they sure were by the time the Dominion War came around.


I place them a close second behind the Fed and Klingons, but their cloaking device and newer warships is what made them dangerous.

They did seem to feel in TNG like they could take on the Federation if it weren't for the pesky Klingons taking their side. And Sloan was very concerned about their power.

They had one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the AQ, an organized and disciplined military, and a sense of infrastructure.

If they could have plugged that into industrial base with resources, they could have been much more powerful and larger.

That's why they (in their opinion) probably believed they were destined to rule the AQ, even though they had resource problems.

I'm not convinced that sort of militaristic nationalism actually leads to a stronger military. Sure, you ask any Cardassian citizen they'll say they're 100% loyal to the state. But if the citizens live in fear of their government they keep their heads down and do what they're told, they don't try to stand out and excel. So instead of talented, motivated people rising to prominent positions you get cronies. Fine for maintaining the status quo, bad for innovating and expanding.
 
But, please, exclude the Dominion and the Borg. Everyone loves to pick these two species, but, since they are so strong, there is little to speculate on.

So, pick the most powerful civilization, only don't pick the most powerful ones.

I need to rescind my "other" vote since I cast it before reading the disclaimer.
 
!!

But, please, exclude the Dominion and the Borg. Everyone loves to pick these two species, but, since they are so strong, there is little to speculate on.

So, pick the most powerful civilization, only don't pick the most powerful ones.

I need to rescind my "other" vote since I cast it before reading the disclaimer.

Hahaha!

The point is to have something to discuss. When we include the Dominion and Borg, there is nothing to discuss...
 
Considering how easily the Romulan leadership was toppled in Nemesis, I doubt there will be much left after the supernova obliterates the homeworlds of Romulus and Remus in 2387. And since it was a magical supernova which exploded at impossible speeds and threatened to destroy the entire galaxy, there is a good chance a lot of Romulan territory was destroyed too ("He called himself Nero, last of the Romulan Empire.")

Cardassia is in ruins from the end of DS9, so it's down to the Federation and the Klingons.
 
When we include the Dominion and Borg, there is nothing to discuss...

Not true, while both have their strengths, both can be dealt with. You just need to find a way around their soldiers and get at the leadership. In the last episode of Voyager, it is possible that the Borg collective was basically destroyed.

:)
 
I gave the one vote to the Klingon Empire, because I felt "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave us a glimpse into what would happen in a full-on Federation-Klingon War, and it wasn't good for the Feds.
 
I gave the one vote to the Klingon Empire, because I felt "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave us a glimpse into what would happen in a full-on Federation-Klingon War, and it wasn't good for the Feds.

I agree that the Klingons appeared to have a military advantage in the 2350s, but things would have certainly changed by Nemesis. The Federation got its act together after the Borg incident and Dominion War, and the Klingons were severely weakened by the war. So, things have changed after 20 years...
 
I'm not convinced that sort of militaristic nationalism actually leads to a stronger military. Sure, you ask any Cardassian citizen they'll say they're 100% loyal to the state. But if the citizens live in fear of their government they keep their heads down and do what they're told, they don't try to stand out and excel. So instead of talented, motivated people rising to prominent positions you get cronies. Fine for maintaining the status quo, bad for innovating and expanding.

Definitely true, Cardassia's politics were its main downfall. It had to have been one of the most bi-polar governments in the AQ. And the military controls all the institutions, making it harder for civilians to be individuals.

But that's what made it so disturbing--Cardassia could be a first power even with its warped, twisted view about patriotism. In some ways, it was just like pre-war II Germany- all it needed was resources.

Although he was using mostly Dominion ships, Dukat was effectively directing the war, and from DS9 at that. It shows what they are capable of.


I gave the one vote to the Klingon Empire, because I felt "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave us a glimpse into what would happen in a full-on Federation-Klingon War, and it wasn't good for the Feds.

I agree that the Klingons appeared to have a military advantage in the 2350s, but things would have certainly changed by Nemesis. The Federation got its act together after the Borg incident and Dominion War, and the Klingons were severely weakened by the war. So, things have changed after 20 years...

Everything seems to point to the idea of the Klingons having a massive military up until the middle of the Dominion war.

First they invaded Cardassia---then they fight them AND Federation, then the Dominion enters the picture and they fight tem -later they re-ally with the Fed and go to war with the Dominion.

They would have had to have a lot of ships to last that long.
 
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Endgame was rather vague about the extent of the effects of the Borg virus. Their transwarp hub was destroyed limiting their ability to quickly reach the AQ, that much was clear. But it wasn't clear whether the virus was limited to the hub or whether it affected the entire Collective.

The Dominion, it was clear, if they were able to mobilize their entire forces in the AQ it would have been an easy victory.

But again, who are we counting? If one-off episode races count, then the Transfigurations race could Vader-choke any Dominion ship that gets near them, and the dinosaurs could annihilate them.

@Nightdiamond

It's true Cardassia had the ability to quickly train and mobilize its military, but we also have to consider technological advancement. The Federation wasn't even trying to develop weapons technology, but after Q Who it took them all of five years to build the most powerful ship among the major galactic powers. With one rogue group operating illegally, they invented a better cloaking device than the one the Romulans had been developing for over a century.

The Federation advances in technology the fastest because in a dictatorship, all the smartest people are too smart to do anything to make themselves stand out. So your chief scientist isn't the brilliant prodigy who was top in his class and graduated with all the highest honors, it's the boss's nephew.
 
I bet that if we had could see how the "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline would play out, then the Klingon Empire would somehow fall into civil war over the spoils of the conquest of the Federation.
 
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