• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Stratos? Could it be done?

Tarek71

Commodore
Commodore
I always thought that visually, floating cities were amazing. But it always seemed to require some pretty absurd handwavium. But in reading about advanced and experimental airships, I came across some information about vacuum buoyancy. Here is an artistic depiction:

Stratos001.jpg


Here are some links I came across:

http://orbitalvector.com/Aircraft/Airships/ADVANCED%20AIRSHIPS.htm
http://airshipworld.wetpaint.com/page/Vacuum+Buoyancy
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48586cc9eb91a

Seems like an interesting idea. Its not quite Stratos, but it would be interesting if this could be pulled off. Any thoughts on this?
 
Last edited:
Not going to happen in your life time or that of your kids. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh no, this was not a real estate interest! I have no such "bubble". I am not sure Id live in one even if they existed right now. Im talking about it from the science and technology point of view and from the reasonably "harder" science fiction view.
 
Its certainly possible, I can think of some ways that these cities could hover in air, of course they would be advanced, and it would most likely be for a planet with low gravity that can't really support life outside the bubble.
 
Well...one COULD do it with Chemical rocket power... For a few minutes...unless they were tethered to enormous fuel sources...
hawk_cy2_bw.jpg


Practical..not for a LONG time...
 
^^ Wasn’t the Hawkmen’s sky city kept aloft by atomic rays?

Apparently, feeding radium to an “atom furnace” is just like shoveling coal into a steam boiler!

61atomic_furnaces.jpg
 
I don't see any particular reason why it would be impossible, nor any particular reason why it would be desirable.
 
it would be easier for it to float, that the only place I can really think of that would be easier for the ship to hover and not expend tons of fuel.
 
But why does it need to float just because the planet has low gravity? What about low gravity would make it better to have a floating city than just building one on the ground?
 
Stunning, breathtaking views. Did somone ask why it would be desirable to live in a place that floated through the clouds? Thats a joke right? Have you seen what people pay to live lakeside on the northside of Chicago? Imagine what theyd pay to serenely cruise the skies. Nevermind being mobile and avoiding floods, tornados, etc. Smaller and more modest establishments could be scientific research stations. A number of ideas for stratostations are out there and they have a number of potential uses, scientific and military. Also as high altitude launch sites.

The idea of vacuum buoyancy is that they could be used even on Earth, because they float, and therefore arent using rocket fuel or handwavium antigravity fields to stay aloft. They are airships, like blimps or balloons. They are steerable and able to carry fairly substantial loads.
 
Last edited:
Stunning, breathtaking views. Did somone ask why it would be desirable to live in a place that floated through the clouds? Thats a joke right? Have you seen what people pay to live lakeside on the northside of Chicago? Imagine what theyd pay to serenely cruise the skies. Nevermind being mobile and avoiding floods, tornados, etc. Smaller and more modest establishments could be scientific research stations. A number of ideas for stratostations are out there and they have a number of potential uses, scientific and military. Also as high altitude launch sites.

The idea of vacuum buoyancy is that they could be used even on Earth, because they float, and therefore arent using rocket fuel or handwavium antigravity fields to stay aloft. They are airships, like blimps or balloons. They are steerable and able to carry fairly substantial loads.

You know what clouds are called when they're on your doorstep? Fog. People love fog! :p

Regarding resistance to natural disasters: I'm not sure whether a hurricane could easily destroy one or not, although the possibility seems plausible.

As for high altitude launch site? I actually cannot think of a more terrible place to put your weapons than on a high-visibility, slow, easily punctured lighter-than-air vehicle. Every other proven platform is either low-visibility (submarine, mobile land vehicle), fast (aircraft), or highly survivable (hardened bunker). A cloud city possesses the weaknesses of all of them and the advantages of none, at many times the cost.

Indeed, the expense of a cloud city cannot be overstated. While rich people are indeed willing to pay silly amounts for things that don't matter, the things they tend to value are space, mobility and privacy. The equivalent to a $10m mansion on land is probably a rent-controlled apartment 1km in the sky, in a compact structure, so space and privacy are voided; mobility is a concern as well as air-to-ground-and-back transport costs can rapidly mount.
 
You know what clouds are called when they're on your doorstep? Fog. People love fog! :p

Good thing it can ascend and descend and hardly ever have to experience it! ;)

I have to think though, that even the airship skeptic would concede that you would have some pretty stunning vistas very often.

Regarding resistance to natural disasters: I'm not sure whether a hurricane could easily destroy one or not, although the possibility seems plausible.

Not likely. It would depend on speed and altitude. The stratostations I have seen would be too far up to be affected. What altitude these more residential/office/crusie ship/hotel type ships could reach would be part of how they deal with issues like that.

As for high altitude launch site? I actually cannot think of a more terrible place to put your weapons than on a high-visibility, slow, easily punctured lighter-than-air vehicle. Every other proven platform is either low-visibility (submarine, mobile land vehicle), fast (aircraft), or highly survivable (hardened bunker). A cloud city possesses the weaknesses of all of them and the advantages of none, at many times the cost.

Thats launches into space. And the goal there is to be cheaper than a launch from the ground. The military applications of airships, albeit not residential airships, are numerous, but different than a floating cruise missle ship. Designs for unmanned high altitude observation platforms that can remain aloft for years at a time would be one such idea.

Indeed, the expense of a cloud city cannot be overstated. While rich people are indeed willing to pay silly amounts for things that don't matter, the things they tend to value are space, mobility and privacy. The equivalent to a $10m mansion on land is probably a rent-controlled apartment 1km in the sky, in a compact structure, so space and privacy are voided; mobility is a concern as well as air-to-ground-and-back transport costs can rapidly mount.

Ahhh so location doesnt matter in real estate! I imagine that city living in condos and apartments has not been considered by you? People pay an enormous amount for very, very little space or "privacy" in the sense of distance to nearest neighbor. Although when you close the door of you city apartment or condo, you actually do have interior privacy. Not only would there be no shortage of people who would want that, but other versions as hotels, spas and cruise ships would be a huge hit.

I dont have any problem at all seeing the desirablity of it. And since its an airship and solar powered, Its not clear what makes the cost so high for you. I think the devil in the details is the construction materials. This cant really be done right now, as vacuum buoyancy for something like this would reguire far stronger, lightweight building materials than currently exist. In principle, they could be manufactured, but this would involve some advances in the nano-manufacture of incredibly strong materials. Its easy enough to make something that can maintain its shape with a vacuum internally, but it has to be able to light enough to float at the same time. And thats alot more difficult.
 
There would probably be millions of people on waiting lists for years to live in places like this. Ordinary market forces will determine that though. Right now we don't know what the cost per unit would be. I suspect it will vary. As will space. Luxury versions might be built on the spa resort or luxury full service condo building model. Like space stations alot of the appeal is the idea of it. Yes there might be some practical advantages of space station life over terrestrial homes but that's not what will draw most people to living in space. Billions of other people might regard it as a crazy idea. But there's little doubt of the enormous appeal that strato cities and space stkations would have to huge numbers of others.

The key again is in the construction. It provides its own power and ferry ing to and from the station should be fairly easy with relatively cheap cargo airship and passenger ferries. The main issue is in the costs and capabilities of the building materials.

Obviously it would be hugely popular with many who are rich, but a far wider availability would be greatly preferable.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top