STC Ep. 7: "Embrace The Winds" speculation and discussion....

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Warped9, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. rRico

    rRico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    And what about those who disagree with your point of view? While #notall viewed the miniskirt in the same way, the mainstream in entertainment and in fashion did see and present this piece of garment as a statement of women's lib.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :rolleyes: Good job trying to marginalize women who don't and/or didn't like to wear miniskirts.
     
  3. rRico

    rRico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Women are free to like/not like and wear/not wear what they want. The miniskirt was the perfect symbol for that kind of freedom in that time.
     
  4. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You didn't address my point. I was talking about your usage of the hashtag #notall. You couldn't even speak about a group with a different opinion without imposing a label on them, and, with all of the presumptions that comes as the baggage with such a stamp, thereby implicitly attempting to marginalize them. It's really very disrespectful.
     
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  5. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First off, why do you think I'm upset? I didn't write my statement in ALL CAPS. If anything it seems like you had an emotional response to my speculations here. I was commenting on the STC episode and beyond that about the weaknesses of having Spock be a stand-in for non-white people. I never said Nimoy wasn't white, I don't get where that's coming from. It's established that his mother in the show was a white woman, so Spock was at least have white, and add that to his fair-skinned Vulcan father. Though to be fair, there was supposedly enough ambiguity with Nimoy's appearance that Kirk could call him a "Chinese rice picker" and expect that to fly in 1930s America. Fair enough Nimoy was Jewish, a member of an oppressed minority (in this case of fair-skinned people). Shatner is also Jewish, do you think he would work as a stand-in as well?

    As for Roots, I don't know how people approach that or if they feel empathy regarding the treatment of Africans at all. That's not my job to determine that, and I never said it was, so don't try to put that on me. I don't know if people identified with the Africans or the slavers, or if they tried to find some middle ground there to sympathize with both. Race and the history of racial conflict, in the US, is a very knotty, complicated issue, and it produces a multiplicity of feelings. Though if you did feel guilt is that bad? If we can feel pride in the past, if we can take pride in what happened in the past and feel a sense of collective achievement, then can't we also feel guilt and shame for the darker aspects of history? If we have a collective responsibility to push forward the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution then I don't think its a stretch to believe there is also a collective responsibility for the great crimes committed, which include the the treatment of Native Americans and Africans.

    It's debatable about what's ham-fisted or not. I think that depends sometimes on if the show or movie has a view that you (not you personally, just in general) don't like, then it's ham-fisted. Using Star Trek as an example, there are episodes where it does take a clear moral line in the sand. So much so that shows like "In the Pale Moonlight" stand out so much because it does dwell in shades of gray. And throughout television period, I would argue that a lot of dramas take a side. And the conflict is more about the hero accomplishing his/her goals instead of it being a shades of gray situation.
     
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  6. DCR

    DCR Commander Red Shirt

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    I know I'm late, but I'd like to throw out my reasons for disappointment in this episode: there was no there there.

    All the juicy stuff about Garrett's past and possible unfitness for the post was brought up and then ignored. The Hood was taken off the board so once again there was no need for Kirk to make a decision. The whole episode was anticlimactic.

    In many ways this episode sums up what I see as STC's biggest failing: Vic Mignogna portrays Kirk very well, but STC as a whole doesn't write Kirk very well. What makes it worse is that Vic's body language clearly communicates Kirk's decisiveness, while the story relieves him of the need to make a decision.

    I also had issues with the subject matter, but they paled in my eyes next to the execution. My own take on sexism in TOS is that they were trying to portray a more egalitarian society than their own, but were handicapped by conscious, unconscious, and institutional bias.

    I hope the next few episodes are better.
     
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  7. rRico

    rRico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Assuming motives and intentions by trying to mindread text on a screen almost always leads to failure.
    While #notall fail, most do.
     
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  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I wasn't speaking about mind-reading or anything about which guesswork is required. I was speaking only to observable effects, or otherwise things that are certain. Hence, my use of the word "implicitly."
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  9. rRico

    rRico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What is certain is that no one is marginalized in their own views by the views held by others, or the words and phrases they use.
     
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that's not what marginalization is about, anyway, so that would be utter nonsense.
     
  11. rRico

    rRico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    While perfectly describing the premise of "Embrace The Winds", it is also the basic gist of what your posts contributed to the topic of this thread so far.

    Garrett also reads motives into everything those around her say and do that aren't there.
     
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  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Big time. She complained to Commodore Gray that Kirk basically harassed her when he did no such thing.
     
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  13. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I may have to watch the episode again, but I think seeing a Romulan supported his already brewing bigotry towards Spock.
     
  14. Zaminhon

    Zaminhon Captain Captain

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    I didn't realize the extent of the detail of the courtroom until comparing a scene from the original.


    [​IMG]
     
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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The costumes in "Embracing the Winds" are truly gorgeous.
     
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  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    No one really fault their productions standards.

    That said it would be nice if there were an effective alternate uniform design for women particularly in command roles.
     
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  17. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Commodore Gray's dress uniform is a work of genius. It blends so perfectly into the known TOS world that it can pass unnoticed. Kirk's tank top, on the other hand...

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed, although I feel the fit should have been a little better.
     
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  19. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Also, needs ironing in that picture! :lol:
     
  20. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Looks like she had her sleeves pushed up for some reason.