State-run health care

[Candlelight]

Just wondering what the big deal is. I watched a news item last night about Republicans going batshit crazy over Obama's new health care plan.

I don't see what the big deal is. In New Zealand we pay our taxes and the healthcare is free(ish). I've always been against user pays as incomes are so low.

Am I missing something? Or is there just a huge pro-user pays mindset in the US?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country. Well, a bit less than half of Americans seem to feel that way, at least.

 

[RoJoHen]

There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country.

Not quite that extreme. More like, "If you can't afford health care, why is that my problem?"

 

[captcalhoun]

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.

 

[RoJoHen]

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.

Hey, I'm right there with ya.

 

[sidious618]

There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country. Well, a bit less than half of Americans seem to feel that way, at least.

Sadly, this is quite accurate. And we're supposed to be a "Christian" country.

 

[Sky]

Yeah, I've never understood what the big deal is either. Here in evil socialist Europe my health care is state run, but I still pick my own doctor and go for a second opinion if I want to. And if the state doesn't want to pay for an elective procedure, I can always pay out of my pocket at a private hospital or cover it with additional insurance.

(And to those worrying about death panels for the elderly... well, my grandpa went through operations and very advanced treatment for kidney cancer 2 years ago, when he was 82.. The state covered it all. He's doing fine now, has to go for checkups every 3 months but there's no sign of the cancer returning. I'm kinda glad to pay taxes when I know it goes towards good healthcare.)

 

[Crash]

Am I missing something? Or is there just a huge pro-user pays mindset in the US?

Lately, I'm coming to believe that a good chunk of the country believes in the notion that the only real freedom is the freedom to spend money how they please. It's one of the reasons we have such a huge problem with lobbying and everyone crying about taxation while we're paying the lowest taxes since WW2.

But, then, I find it difficult to take the American populace seriously on issues of financial responsibility when the average person is eight grand in the hole to credit card sharks.

 

[Mallory]

Not quite that extreme. More like, "If you can't afford health care, why is that my problem?"

That's pretty much my position on the issue. People need to understand that health insurance is an essential, the same as food and shelter. Yet most people consistently overlook this priority while they're buying DVDs, McMansions, driving SUVs, etc. They just assume that they'll always be employed and have health insurance through their employer.

When I was 21 and working one of the first things I did was purchase a private disability insurance policy and I made damned sure that in the event I became disabled that the policy would continue to pay my health insurance premiums. I never thought I'd ever use it, but at age 50 I became unable to work full time and a decision I made 29 years earlier has made all the difference in the world to myself and my family.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!.

Wilefires, mudslides, earthquakes, Valley Girls, strip malls, the traffic sucks and so does the smog.

 

[sidious618]

So just because someone isn't forward thinking they should go sans health insurance? I dont' think so. No one should have to pay for health insurance.

 

[cultcross]

That's pretty much my position on the issue. People need to understand that health insurance is an essential, the same as food and shelter. Yet most people consistently overlook this priority while they're buying DVDs, McMansions, driving SUVs, etc. They just assume that they'll always be employed and have health insurance through their employer.

When I was 21 and working one of the first things I did was purchase a private disability insurance policy and I made damned sure that in the event I became disabled that the policy would continue to pay my health insurance premiums. I never thought I'd ever use it, but at age 50 I became unable to work full time and a decision I made 29 years earlier has made all the difference in the world to myself and my family.

And I think you need to realise that not everyone's inability to afford healthcare is down to poor decision making on their part. This is the core fallacy of the anti-UHC argument, imho. That poverty is a choice that people make, a bed they've made and need to lie in. Sure, there are people that are stupid with money - no-one would deny that. But healthcare that is worth having is expensive. There are many who simply cannot afford it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I get the impression that a government run health care system would be somewhat less convenient and easy access than, say, an HMO. Think of the kind of lines you get at the DMV, then imagine that at the hospital.

Choose two of these three options: cheap, fast, and good. You can have any two of these things, but not all three.

 

[sidious618]

I get the impression that a government run health care system would be somewhat less convenient and easy access than, say, an HMO. Think of the kind of lines you get at the DMV, then imagine that at the hospital.

Your impression is wrong. That would not happen. How do I know this? It hasn't happened anywhere else where there is UHC.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That would not happen. How do I know this? It hasn't happened anywhere else where there is UHC.

And what about taxes? They'd have to go way, way up, wouldn't they? Somebody's got to pay for all this. Remember: (cheap, fast, good) x 2/3 ...

Oh well. If people could still keep the insurance plans they get now - such as, from their employer - and this new plan would be just another option, I don't see a problem with that.

And picking my own doctor is a must. I don't want the State telling me who to go to, or what procedures I'm allowed to have.

 

[sidious618]

And what about taxes? They'd have to go way, way up, wouldn't they? Somebody's got to pay for all this. Remember: (cheap, fast, good) x 2/3 ...

Depending on how we budget it we wouldn't have to raise taxes much. Plus, in the long run, it will help our economy.

 

[RJDiogenes]

And that brings us to the real problem: The cost of Health Care (and its ancillaries, like Malpractice). Health Care costs drive up Insurance costs, making policies unaffordable or insufficient.

 

[Michael Chris]

I think the main difference in mindset is how medical insurance really started. I don't of any other place that really had the same origin as the US has had. I think it has created a different cultural mindset.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

And that brings us to the real problem: The cost of Health Care (and its ancillaries, like Malpractice). Health Care costs drive up Insurance costs, making policies unaffordable or insufficient.

Is that really the problem? or is it that because Health Care is so essential to day to day life that they know people will pay roughly whatever they charge?

I think the problem is: Private capitalist business dictates, make the most money possible.

And that's fine, in many (perhaps one could say, most) industries. If people are going to pay 15 bucks a DVD instead of 10, fine, charge it and if its too expensive, don't buy the DVD. Nobody's forcing you to buy it. And so on...

In health care, the best way to make the most money possible is to have people pay exhorbatant costs into healthcare, and minimize the amount of claims you have to pay. Get as many people and deny as many claims as possible.

Seriously... letting people die is the best way to make the most money possible. It's the most capitalist way to do business.

Can someone imagine if something like the police were a private business only? It would be a nightmare. But that would never happen even in a pretty capitalistic society, because it's something essential. Because it's about something more than the pursuit of wealth: it's about keeping people safe ABOVE that.

In a private business, the ideal will never be above the profit margin. And like I said, for MOST areas, that is perfectly fine. It's America after all!

But the essentials of life, should not be left to "make the most money possible out of the victims". It's completely antithetical.

 

[mimic]

Personally I don't like that it'll be mandatory to buy health insurance. I voted for Obama over Hillary because he said he wasn't going to make it mandatory. So much for that.

For a few months between when I graduate and before I start working full-time I will not have health insurance and technically I would be breaking the law if this passes, instead of just taking a risk. It's not like car insurance where you have the option of not driving. So I'll probably have to take out loans to pay for health insurance, on top of the loans that I'll have for school. Lovely.

 

[Cicero]

I get the impression that a government run health care system would be somewhat less convenient and easy access than, say, an HMO. Think of the kind of lines you get at the DMV, then imagine that at the hospital.

No, it doesn't work like that. During high school and college, my health care was provided for by the military health care system, which is entirely government-funded and government-run. The care was excellent, and far faster than what I've been able to find anywhere as a civilian in the years since I aged-out. The military covers everything you need, no matter how expensive. And it's available every time.

The government-run grocery stores - Commissaries - and semi-department stories - Exchanges - are fantastic, too. They make a profit (which goes to MWR - Morale, Welfare, and Recreation), pay their employees better than most other chains, and almost always offer the best price around. It's amazing how much a for-profit business model degrades basic services.