Starship from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

[Cadet49]

Well, now we know why there was a Federation starship seen in the trailers crashing into a city!

What I wonder, in terms of consequences of this for Kirk and Spock:

Spoiler: Spoiler about what happened to a city in the movie.

In the trailer, we see whole skyscrapers and city blocks in a downtown core being obliterated by a starship crashing into the city.

Without revealing too much, we know that Kirk drew that tactical situation back into Earth orbit, rather than leading the situation away from Earth, as they did with Nero in Star Trek IX, when Spock used the Jellyfish to lead the Narada away from Earth, into open space, where there were no innocents to be harmed by the battle between the Enterprise and the Narada. I understand Kirk's motives for returning to Earth in this new movie, but considering the tactical situation, you would think that he would want to draw any potential hostiles AWAY from Earth, not towards it!

Here, we can assume potentially thousands of people lost their lives as a result of the crash, possibly even more people than were lost in London as a result of the terrorist attack at the beginning of the film.

So, would/should Kirk and Spock face any repurcussions for the potentially thousands of lives lost, since they were the ones that decided to bring the tactical situation back to Earth, rather than drawing it away from their homeworld?


It's the same problem I had with the Transformers movie, penned by the same writers, I think, where the Autobots decide to make their stand against the Decepticons in the middle of a downtown section of a city, surrounded by thousands of innocent people. That didn't make much sense to me, if the Autobots goal was to protect the humans - wouldn't they draw the Decepticons AWAY from a city? It's different in movies like the Avengers, where the villains are initially doing something in the middle of the city, and the heroes have no choice but to engage them in the city, to protect the innocent population of civilians in the city...

And, while I'm at it, where the heck was the rest of Starfleet during all this??? Considering how defenseless it was when Nero attacked a year earlier, and now this, Earth seems to be the worst protected planet in the Galaxy!

It was an cool special effect and action sequence, but I wonder about the repercussions that would result from such a potentially disastrous crash...

 

[AbramsIsSatan]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Damon. Lindelof.

 

[Sector 7]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Well, now we know why there was a Federation starship seen in the trailers crashing into a city!

What I wonder, in terms of consequences of this for Kirk and Spock:

Spoiler: Spoiler about what happened to a city in the movie.

In the trailer, we see whole skyscrapers and city blocks in a downtown core being obliterated by a starship crashing into the city.

Without revealing too much, we know that Kirk drew that tactical situation back into Earth orbit, rather than leading the situation away from Earth, as they did with Nero in Star Trek IX, when Spock used the Jellyfish to lead the Narada away from Earth, into open space, where there were no innocents to be harmed by the battle between the Enterprise and the Narada. I understand Kirk's motives for returning to Earth in this new movie, but considering the tactical situation, you would think that he would want to draw any potential hostiles AWAY from Earth, not towards it!

Here, we can assume potentially thousands of people lost their lives as a result of the crash, possibly even more people than were lost in London as a result of the terrorist attack at the beginning of the film.

So, would/should Kirk and Spock face any repurcussions for the potentially thousands of lives lost, since they were the ones that decided to bring the tactical situation back to Earth, rather than drawing it away from their homeworld?


It's the same problem I had with the Transformers movie, penned by the same writers, I think, where the Autobots decide to make their stand against the Decepticons in the middle of a downtown section of a city, surrounded by thousands of innocent people. That didn't make much sense to me, if the Autobots goal was to protect the humans - wouldn't they draw the Decepticons AWAY from a city? It's different in movies like the Avengers, where the villains are initially doing something in the middle of the city, and the heroes have no choice but to engage them in the city, to protect the innocent population of civilians in the city...

And, while I'm at it, where the heck was the rest of Starfleet during all this??? Earth seems to be the worst protected planet in the Galaxy!

It was an cool special effect and action sequence, but I wonder about the repercussions that would result from such a potentially disastrous crash...

When you see the movie, it will become more clear that:

Spoiler: repercussions

Those repercussions were non-existant. A year later Kirk speaks at the re-christening of the Enterprise, then our favorite crew begins their 5-year mission.

 

[royalfan5]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

What about reprecussions from the UFP being to cheap to spring for some basic shielding technology for the City where Starfleet is HQ'ed? Really, nobody noticed their was a battle between two Federation ships going on near Earth, and though maybe we should get some help and defense into position?

 

[Nightowl1701]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Once it came out that the monster behind the wheel of that ship was the same one who hit London, and the commander-in-chief of Starfleet itself (they didn't come out and say it, but what else could Marcus have been?) was the reason he was there (not to mention the nonexistent planetary defenses - not that they would've done much against the Vengeance), Kirk and Co. would probably be the only Starfleeters in that town NOT in trouble.

This was the starship who saved the entire planet from Nero a year ago. They were bringing Khan back safely locked up in the brig. It was Marcus who brought the city-killing superstarship into the mix and wouldn't take "We got him" for an answer.

 

[PsychoPere]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

[...] the commander-in-chief of Starfleet itself (they didn't come out and say it, but what else could Marcus have been?) [...]

Kirk did, in fact, refer to Marcus as "the head of Starfleet," early into his conversation with the admiral after the Vengeance arrived to demand that Khan be turned over.

 

[Cadet49]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Once it came out that the monster behind the wheel of that ship was the same one who hit London, and the commander-in-chief of Starfleet itself (they didn't come out and say it, but what else could Marcus have been?) was the reason he was there (not to mention the nonexistent planetary defenses - not that they would've done much against the Vengeance), Kirk and Co. would probably be the only Starfleeters in that town NOT in trouble.

This was the starship who saved the entire planet from Nero a year ago. They were bringing Khan back safely locked up in the brig. It was Marcus who brought the city-killing superstarship into the mix and wouldn't take "We got him" for an answer.

Yes, but

Spoiler: Earth

the exact same sequence of events could have happened in some abandoned solar system where no innocents were at risk, if a ship got pulled from orbit. There, they could have engaged without any potential collatoral damage to innocent people. Since there mission is to protect the Federation, I would think Kirk would not take the enemy straight to Earth. Or, did Kirk maybe think that once he reached Earth, the enemy would break off the chase, rather than be exposed or risk having to fight Starfleet as well?

And you say, 'Once it came out that the monster behind the wheel of that ship was the same one who hit London, and the commander-in-chief of Starfleet itself (they didn't come out and say it, but what else could Marcus have been?) was the reason he was there ... Kirk and Co. would probably be the only Starfleeters in that town NOT in trouble.' However, wasn't Kirk also partially responsible for placing "the monster" in the position where he was able to take the wheel, in a way, as he took that individual over there?

Also,

Spoiler: Enterprise call to New Vulcan

if Spock could contact New Vulcan during the tactical situation, why couldn't he call Starfleet for reinforcements or to warn Earth - weren't they right by Earth at the time??? I'm assuming New Vulcan was probably farther away ... unless it was one of the planets in the Solar System...

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Also,

Spoiler: Spock call to New Vulcan

if Spock could contact New Vulcan during the tactical situation, why couldn't he call Starfleet for reinforcements or to warn Earth - weren't they right by Earth at the time??? I'm assuming New Vulcan was probably farther away ... unless it was one of the planets in the Solar System...

Pretty sure the Enterprise was...

Spoiler: Enterprise location

Still sabotaged and stuck at the edge of the Klingon Space, when Spock puts in the call to New Vulcan.

 

[Cadet49]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Also,

Spoiler: Spock call to New Vulcan

if Spock could contact New Vulcan during the tactical situation, why couldn't he call Starfleet for reinforcements or to warn Earth - weren't they right by Earth at the time??? I'm assuming New Vulcan was probably farther away ... unless it was one of the planets in the Solar System...

Pretty sure the Enterprise was...

Spoiler: Enterprise location

Still sabotaged and stuck at the edge of the Klingon Space, when Spock puts in the call to New Vulcan.

Really? I thought

Spoiler: Enterprise location

the call was made when both ships were disabled near Earth's moon, and Kirk was off the ship attempting his tactical move, while Enterprise was near the moon. But regardless, if they can contact New Vulcan, why can't they call for help from Earth???

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Re: Starship Crash from Trailer = Repercussions? (Warning - Spoilers!)

Also,

Spoiler: Spock call to New Vulcan

if Spock could contact New Vulcan during the tactical situation, why couldn't he call Starfleet for reinforcements or to warn Earth - weren't they right by Earth at the time??? I'm assuming New Vulcan was probably farther away ... unless it was one of the planets in the Solar System...

Pretty sure the Enterprise was...

Spoiler: Enterprise location

Still sabotaged and stuck at the edge of the Klingon Space, when Spock puts in the call to New Vulcan.

Spoiler: Enterprise location

Oh, I had thought the call was made when Kirk was off the ship with Harrison, while Enterprise was near the moon. But regardless, if they can contact New Vulcan, why can't they call for help from Earth???

Oh I agree with you there it's pretty silly that he can't get a signal through to both. The only rationale could be that New Vulcan is closer to Qo'noS than the Earth is. The signal quality to New Vulcan was pretty poor. Lots of digital signal breakup and tiling.

 

[PsychoPere]

The thread title is spoiler notated, so I'm not going to bother with spoiler code.

Yes, but the exact same sequence of events could have happened in some abandoned solar system where no innocents were at risk, if a ship got pulled from orbit. [...]

The Enterprise could not stand against the Vengeance in a straight fight. Its only hope was to run to Starfleet defenses, where presumably cooler heads would prevail and insist that the Starfleet Commander-in-Chief stop firing on another Starfleet ship without first ascertaining what the hell was going on.

Also, if Spock could contact New Vulcan during the tactical situation, why couldn't he call Starfleet for reinforcements or to warn Earth - weren't they right by Earth at the time??? [...]

This is a good question, for which I don't have any thoughts.

 

[Tom Servo]

I feel any questions I have about the lack of Earth reinforcements are answered by essentially...they're fighting the head of Starfleet. He could do what ever he wanted to keep the Enterprise isolated, even in Earth space. He could have even created a false trail to send the rest of the fleet off to follow, if he felt there was a risk the Enterprise would make it back to Earth. He could have jammed all communications with Starfleet HQ, or made sure that Section 31 caused them to be blatantly ignored.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

There was no reason for Kirk to assume that the Vengeance posed any clear and present threat to anyone other that the Enterprise (Admiral Marcus was, after all, all about protecting the Federation). Additionally, when Kirk set course for Earth, he was unaware that the Vengeance could overtake his ship and fire upon it at the same time. It wasn't until Carol had been beamed off the Enterprise that Kirk (and the audience, really) fully understood the lengths Admiral Marcus would go to fulfill his agenda.

 

[section9]

Yeah, basically Starfleet disappeared. There were no planetary defenses to be had.

Damon Lindelof indeed!

 

[Candlelight]

Yeah, basically Starfleet disappeared. There were no planetary defenses to be had.

Damon Lindelof indeed!

In Generations the Enterprise B was deep in the solar system when those two ships got into trouble, and apparently there was no one else nearby to help.

Seriously, three light years from Earth and there is only one starship in range, and an ill-prepared one at that. What if the Romulans turned up at that point??

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Yep, the no real defenses around Earth is a time-tested Trek trope.

 

[Cadet49]

I feel any questions I have about the lack of Earth reinforcements are answered by essentially...they're fighting the head of Starfleet. He could do what ever he wanted to keep the Enterprise isolated, even in Earth space. He could have even created a false trail to send the rest of the fleet off to follow, if he felt there was a risk the Enterprise would make it back to Earth. He could have jammed all communications with Starfleet HQ, or made sure that Section 31 caused them to be blatantly ignored.

I like that explanation! Maybe Kirk and Co

Spoiler: Run Home!

were sending out warning signals to Earth the whole way home, and expected to be greeted by a whole fleet of protection vessels, but Section 31 intercepted the transmissions, and sent the rest of the fleet away on an "emergency" - maybe in the mysterious "Laurentian System" again?

. That's what I love about us Trek fans - the more plot holes there are in a film, the more we work together to develop creative and imaginative ways to explain the gaps - I've always enjoyed tge challenge of doing that! Kudos to the creative fans and their solutions!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps Admiral Marcus ordered all nearby ships to GTFO before executing the final phase of hic plan? It wouldn't do to have long-rage sensor scans of the Vengeance mercilessly kicking the shit out of the helpless Enterprise...

 

[Commishsleer]

Why would Kirk and Spock be to blame?
They crippled a mega-warship (that could presumably destroy planets) that was under the control of a mad man. They saved the day again...

Maybe Spock didn't contact Earth defenses because it was blooming obvious that the Enterprise was crashing and no-one turned up to help and he really didn't know about the Vengeance until it was too late. And maybe Khan's last attack wiped out all communication. Excuses, excuses I know.

 

[royalfan5]

As far as blaming Section 31, if the were aiming to provoke a war with the Klingons wouldn't you want somebody ready to defend Earth if they hit back immediately?