Starfleet's knowledge of Klingon physiological changes

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by IanRob2358, May 18, 2017.

  1. IanRob2358

    IanRob2358 Cadet Newbie

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    This is my first post although I have been here before and have just resubscribed after a number of years away.

    Anyway, as we know the topic of the Klingon's changing appearance is constantly talked about, usually with little resolution. What I've just realised is that Klingon's in the 2260's to 2290's had to have been seen by a countless number of Starfleet officers and crew, Starfleet High Command must've have some knowledge by at least the 2270's when regular Klingon's started to make a reappearance and Starfleet Medical Journals would most likely exist that shows these changes but might not specifically detail the differences. In the 24th century Dr Bashir on DS9 should've had no reason to show any surprise to the difference, when he travelled back in time to the K7 incident with the rest of the Defiant crew, as he most likely would've been at least known to it by reading the required Starfleet Medical Journals for his Academy curriculum. The only thing I can come up with to explain why at least Bashir would be surprised would be that Starfleet basically covered up all knowledge of the changes and made sure that no references existed in any text or visual format out of some respect or treaty with the Klingon Alliance. Basically I'm asking if this is a plausible reason to why both O'Brien and Bashir were surprised about seeing 2260 version Klingons?
     
  2. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Or it was a big deal in the 22nd and 23rd Centuries, but by the 2280s or 90s, people talked about it less and less, by the 2310s no body cared, and by the time Bashir and O'Brien were going to grade school in the 2340s or 50s, no one bothered to mention it to them. And they didn't think to ask. Probably is just the sorta fact that comes up occasionally in bar room trivia nights. I'm sure the information is available to them if they try to look it up. Really doesn't seem to be an actual secret since Dax, and maybe more importantly Sisko don't seem phased at all.

    That Worf got all cagey about it is just Worf being Worf. He doesn't like to open up or tell stories that might feel embarrassing about Klingons. He's always super defensive and insecure about his Klingon-ness. Even other Klingons call him out on it.

    --Alex
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When do Dax and Sisko see a TOS Klingon?
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, IIRC Sisko and Dax are not in any scenes with Klingons.
     
  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Commodore Commodore

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    23rd century Starfleet officers, lacking any real knowledge, probably just put it down to there being different intelligent species in the Empire.

    All of whom are called "Klingons."
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  6. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Starfleet Medical wouldn't need to teach about the augment virus that infected the Klingons by the 24th century since it had been cleared up by the end of the 23rd century. So Bashir has no reason to know about the late 22nd to mid-23rd century Klingon appearance.

    O'Brien just doesn't know that much about 22nd and 23rd century history. It was probably an elective and it had a boring teacher.
     
  7. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    I wish they had just put Dorn in TOS style Klingon make-up for the scenes on K7 and had none of the other characters notice. Continue on down Gene's "this is how it would have looked had budget allowed" idea in regards to the invention of Klingon foreheads for TMP..
     
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  8. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

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    Curzon, however, was alive during Kirk's era and knew Kang, Kor and Koloth.

    Sisko and Jadzia may have seen a Klingon off scene.
     
  9. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    This is the logic I had in mind.

    --Alex
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then why did you say, "Really doesn't seem to be an actual secret since Dax, and maybe more importantly Sisko don't seem phased at all."?
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Brain fart? I get them sometimes.
     
  12. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's no shame in a mistake, I make them constantly...and refuse to feel shame! ;)

    Just digging a little, as there is a difference between making a guess and claiming that the episode actual shows something. Curzon was not joined until some time around TMP, so we don't know for sure if Dax ever encountered a "smooth" Klingon or not.
     
  13. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not going to go worry about Sisko. But we do know that Dax had met McCoy as a college student and seems pretty familiar with all the ins and outs of the era. And her familiarity with the big three TOS Klingons, regardless of the Curzon period, seems to me to rule out the possibility that she didn't know about the forehead issue.

    --Alex
     
  14. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I hear the Klingons wonder why all humans don't look like Kirk . . .
     
  15. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a fine assumption, but that's all it is.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Augment virus incident need not be a major and well-known chapter in Klingon history. But what humans probably should be aware of in general is the great variety and constant change in the Klingon makeup. In the other sense of the word, too - the Empire seems to be made up of subtly different-looking Klingons in different decades even if one ignores the less subtle TOS decade.

    Is this because Klingons change? More probably just because Klingon fashions change. Or, more exactly, Klingon leadership changes, and the next big boss favors his own clansmen in important jobs (and perhaps the clansmen of his enemies in frontline combat jobs), leading to both temporal and regional variety. And we know that sometimes the leadership does not change for decades on an end, so we don't need to be worried about makeup change not happening, either.

    The thing is, this sort of stuff is constantly ongoing: it doesn't go away after the 2260s. This makes the "T&T" ignorance/surprise a bit less excusable overall.

    Timo Saloniemi