Starfleet Academy Starship Thread

[Dukhat]

Weren't there some fans that thought that they messed up and that S3 was supposed to be in 2411, not 2401? I could be mistaken but I seem to recall something along those lines.

The theory was that “Frontier Day” was originally supposed to be the 250th anniversary of the founding of the Federation in 2161, which would have been 2411. This makes total sense. Having Frontier Day instead be about the launching of the NX-01 while that ship was sitting neglected in the museum while the celebration was taking place in Earth orbit made zero sense. Add to that the aforementioned issues with Jack’s age and Seven’s time on the Titan shows that something changed in post-production.

 

[tenmei]

The theory was that “Frontier Day” was originally supposed to be the 250th anniversary of the founding of the Federation in 2161, which would have been 2411. This makes total sense. Having Frontier Day instead be about the launching of the NX-01 while that ship was sitting neglected in the museum while the celebration was taking place in Earth orbit made zero sense. Add to that the aforementioned issues with Jack’s age and Seven’s time on the Titan shows that something changed in post-production.

And we also know that they considered, at some point, the Titan to be renamed the USS Picard at the end of the season, the following interview indicates they didnt even pick the name until post-production

We always wanted it to be the Enterprise. We did play with a couple of names. At one point, we even discussed, "Does it become the Picard?," but when we got to the visual effects and we saw NCC-1701-G on it, and USS Enterprise, we all gasped. We all got chills because it looked so perfect on that Constitution class saucer, and then we were like, "Nope, we did the right thing. This is the thing." And we feel really good about it. All of us who worked on it are having models built as we speak.

 

[Dukhat]

While I totally get that the Titan was always going to be renamed (which was a stupid idea from the get-go), I’m not sure they ever seriously thought the ship would be renamed the Picard.

Really, what they should have done was initially name the ship something that would have no affinity for fans. Like the USS Pathfinder, or whatnot. Have it be a ship Riker commanded after the Titan so there would be no naming conflict but still be a former command of his. Then when the ship was renamed the Enterprise at the end of the season, it would have been a more effective name-change instead of the convoluted mess we actually got. But Matalas had such a hard-on about the Titan and he wanted his ship to be the same one mentioned in Nemesis.

 

[David cgc]

But Matalas had such a hard-on about the Titan and he wanted his ship to be the same one mentioned in Nemesis.

To be fair, I think if had worked out as he hoped, it would've been sweet if it turned out Riker's first command had been the Enterprise, he just hadn't known it at the time, but I think that's an idea that should've been shelved once it became incompatible with the larger universe (if not sooner). Turned in the Luna-class Titan into an Enterprise would've been even weirder.

Personally, I think the story would've worked better with Shaw being the captain of the Enterprise-E. Two generations removed from the TNG crew (like, the prior captain had been Worf's first officer, but Shaw himself never directly worked with anyone who'd started on the -D), the ship is now a somewhat... aged... man-o-war that's staying close to the core doing more regular missions and less putting out fires, and doing flybys for parades and inaugurations.

 

[Enterprise1701]

To be fair, I think if had worked out as he hoped, it would've been sweet if it turned out Riker's first command had been the Enterprise, he just hadn't known it at the time, but I think that's an idea that should've been shelved once it became incompatible with the larger universe (if not sooner). Turned in the Luna-class Titan into an Enterprise would've been even weirder.

Personally, I think the story would've worked better with Shaw being the captain of the Enterprise-E. Two generations removed from the TNG crew (like, the prior captain had been Worf's first officer, but Shaw himself never directly worked with anyone who'd started on the -D), the ship is now a somewhat... aged... man-o-war that's staying close to the core doing more regular missions and less putting out fires, and doing flybys for parades and inaugurations.

I continue to maintain that the Constitution-III's size is a cringeworthy downgrade from the sizes of the Sovereign and Odyssey. And that the newly-promoted Captain Seven should have been rewarded for meritoriously saving Earth with a size upgrade from the newly-decomissioned Enterprise-E to Enterprise-F!

 

[Eudoxia]

While I totally get that the Titan was always going to be renamed (which was a stupid idea from the get-go), I’m not sure they ever seriously thought the ship would be renamed the Picard.

Really, what they should have done was initially name the ship something that would have no affinity for fans. Like the USS Pathfinder, or whatnot. Have it be a ship Riker commanded after the Titan so there would be no naming conflict but still be a former command of his. Then when the ship was renamed the Enterprise at the end of the season, it would have been a more effective name-change instead of the convoluted mess we actually got. But Matalas had such a hard-on about the Titan and he wanted his ship to be the same one mentioned in Nemesis.

They could have just made the Titan the actual Luna-class Titan and then unveiled Enterprise-G as a new ship (which would have also given Drexler more time to fix the issues in the NeoConnie design he and Krause didn't get a chance to do). That would have made more sense (so would have the original plan to set the show on the Stargazer from Season 2...)

(Or you know, just do the correct thing and retire the Enterprise-E and unveil the Enterprise-F at the end of the season, which is miles better looking and actually progresses the Sovereign's design language into the next era...)
EDIT:

I continue to maintain that the Constitution-III's size is a cringeworthy downgrade from the sizes of the Sovereign and Odyssey. And that the newly-promoted Captain Seven should have been rewarded for meritoriously saving Earth with a size upgrade from the newly-decomissioned Enterprise-E to Enterprise-F!

Eh... that gets into too many problems with the sizes of the ships (not the F, which is actually correctly scaled to its 1061 meter size with windows, decks, and other features). Like, even the E isn't quite big enough to have 24 decks at 685.8m, and the actual physical and CGI model clearly has 26, not 24 decks when you start breaking apart its features, which would put it in the range of ~722m if it had 10 foot decks (it actually had its blueprints done by Sternbach, which means it was probably designed around a 13 foot deck... putting it at 948m...). Eaves designed it at 685.8m though, so it will never work out correctly no matter how you approach it.

And all of that is before even getting into the fact they didn't actually change the details of the NeoConnie for its new size, meaning it should be the same size as the Shangri-La (again... ignoring the debate over the TMP Enterprise being 304.8 or 354.8m...)

Personally I do have a distaste for ships over 700m long in Trek, the Federation's design language just starts to fall apart above that size. Odyssey and the most recent fan remaster of the fanon Century-class are like the two I can really tolerate and that's about it. The Obena is ok, and Excelsior II is gorgeous (and also a case of being undersized, IIRC it comes out to 706 meters? I need to double check.) I don't hate that the Enterprise-G is smaller, I just dislike the over-obsession with a need to be retro and make Star Trek look like TOS or TMP for some reason.

Frankly if it was up to me, and the Odyssey wasn't allowed, and Enterprise had to be a new, PIC era design, I would have chosen the Excelsior II.

 

[korblborp]

i've pointed out in other threads, that there is actually no reason for all decks to be uniform heights. not even for the same deck. real ships just aren't, and haven't ever been, like that.

Frankly if it was up to me, and the Odyssey wasn't allowed, and Enterprise had to be a new, PIC era design, I would have chosen the Excelsior II.

can you really call it that, when it's the Excelsior, but we put the saucer on the rack?

 

[Tuskin38]

I continue to maintain that the Constitution-III's size is a cringeworthy downgrade from the sizes of the Sovereign and Odyssey. And that the newly-promoted Captain Seven should have been rewarded for meritoriously saving Earth with a size upgrade from the newly-decomissioned Enterprise-E to Enterprise-F!

Size isn't everything.

The Enterprise-E was smaller than the-D volume wise.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I hope we get some new 32nd century Federation starship designs aside from the Athena.

 

[Eudoxia]

i've pointed out in other threads, that there is actually no reason for all decks to be uniform heights. not even for the same deck. real ships just aren't, and haven't ever been, like that.

Oh I totally agree. I was discussing the intent, to be clear. Segueing off, my point is just that by the time they were doing these blueprints, they were doing them with uniform heights, unlike the TMP ships which have a mix of 8.5, 9.5, and 12ft decks. But the models did come out irregular after the Blueprints were drawn up - Enterprise-D being a case in point, designed with 10ft decks and coming out to a range between IIRC 8.5 and 11 feet on the 6 foot model. AFAIK the Sovereign model's decks also come out irregular, but it's one of the more regular ones. Sternbach was pretty consistent with Voyager and Equinox on the blueprints and the models.

Frankly if it was up to me, and the Odyssey wasn't allowed, and Enterprise had to be a new, PIC era design, I would have chosen the Excelsior II.

Frankly I do like the idea of the Obena-class being just another Excelsior refit, especially when you consider the probable 609 to 622m length for the Excelsior-class discussed on this forum back in the mid-2010s. Excelsior II, I'm not sure on yet. I imagine the Obena was what they wanted to do with the USS Lakota, but were limited by time and budget constraints.

 

[Daedalus]

I hope we get some new 32nd century Federation starship designs aside from the Athena.

I'm willing to bet that it'll largely be a mix of DSC S3-5 ships, plus some STO and PIC era ships.

They should really be introducing ships with the new Pathway Drive at some point, so you'd like to think they would take on a unique look of their own.

 

[Dukhat]

Personally, I think the story would've worked better with Shaw being the captain of the Enterprise-E. Two generations removed from the TNG crew (like, the prior captain had been Worf's first officer, but Shaw himself never directly worked with anyone who'd started on the -D), the ship is now a somewhat... aged... man-o-war that's staying close to the core doing more regular missions and less putting out fires, and doing flybys for parades and inaugurations.

The problem with Shaw's ship being an older Enterprise-E is that Matalas's intent was to have the hero ship turn out to be a new Enterprise by the end of the series, and that wouldn't have been possible if the ship was already the Enterprise from the start. He also specifically wanted that Bill Krause-inspired design as the hero ship, not the Enterprise-E. Matalas had no intention of showing the Ent-E at all, because his focus was on the Titanprise and the Enterprise-D.

They could have just made the Titan the actual Luna-class Titan and then unveiled Enterprise-G as a new ship (which would have also given Drexler more time to fix the issues in the NeoConnie design he and Krause didn't get a chance to do). That would have made more sense (so would have the original plan to set the show on the Stargazer from Season 2...)

Again, Matalas didn't want the Luna class. He wanted his 'Connie III' design as the ship mentioned in Star Trek: Nemesis, and when that didn't work logistically, he made some convoluted illogical mess of an idea to justify that they were the same ship.

(Or you know, just do the correct thing and retire the Enterprise-E and unveil the Enterprise-F at the end of the season, which is miles better looking and actually progresses the Sovereign's design language into the next era...)

I think it would have been more fitting to have the Enterprise-E come flying out of Spacedock with fireworks going off, commanded by Shelby, only to have it be dramatically destroyed after 30 years of service. Instead we get some lame joke about the ship, and see the Enterprise-F that barely anyone knew about or cared about, getting destroyed off-screen, all to make way for the Titanprise.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Is this the SFA forum or the Picard forum? I'm genuinely confused right now.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, it was the Starfleet Scouts forum until somebody made it all about Picard.

 

[Daedalus]

The TrekBBS equivalent of Godwin's Law.

 

[David cgc]

If they want us to talk about SFA, they’ll need to release the show.

 

[Eudoxia]

Again, Matalas didn't want the Luna class. He wanted his 'Connie III' design as the ship mentioned in Star Trek: Nemesis, and when that didn't work logistically, he made some convoluted illogical mess of an idea to justify that they were the same ship.

I think the only reason he couldn't have done that is because by that point Lower Decks had canonized the Titan, right? I'm pretty sure I have my release order correct at least.

I think it would have been more fitting to have the Enterprise-E come flying out of Spacedock with fireworks going off, commanded by Shelby, only to have it be dramatically destroyed after 30 years of service. Instead we get some lame joke about the ship, and see the Enterprise-F that barely anyone knew about or cared about, getting destroyed off-screen, all to make way for the Titanprise.

Yeah it's an Enterprise-B situation all over again, more or less. Kind of the same for the Enterprise-C but even it got more screen time and was a bit more memorable.

For all of Star Trek Online's problems with storytelling, the fact we didn't get a Romulan Empire collapse plot on-screen and it handled this era better is kind of a travesty. There was (and still is) so much room to really explore there and take Star Trek in a modern direction with political tension while retaining its fundamental message and core elements.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I think the only reason he couldn't have done that is because by that point Lower Decks had canonized the Titan, right? I'm pretty sure I have my release order correct at least.

You do indeed. But the original intention was never written out of the script leaving a lot of contradictions.