Starbase

[Ithekro]

A Raptor from Enterprise probably would have suited "Friday's Child" better. Or one of the older BoP from ENT.

 

[Timo]

Or even the "Bounty" horseshoe crab - with a tail "stinger" attached, that would be a perfect match for the original shape!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Masao is a good designer and I like his design. The station fits the era, but it's still change for changes sake which is something all over TOS-R.

But whatever.

 

[Ithekro]

Change is not always a bad thing.

 

[C57D]

I really like the station designed by Masao, but that was serious retconning on CBS' part to insert that into TOS-R given the deign was conceived decades after the fact.

I wonder if Matt Jefferies ever did any conceptual sketches for other space habitats besides the K-7 type.

Oh, wiat, now I recall. He did do some conceptual ideas for it, but it looked too elaborate for them to build then. But more recently I think I saw someone in the Arts forum make a 3D model on MJ's conceptual drawings. It scaled out quite a bit bigger than the K series design.

I had no idea that MJ had sketched some conceptual concepts for a Starbase. Be good to see anything coherent that any esteemed posters here have or know of.

 

[Warped9]

I really like the station designed by Masao, but that was serious retconning on CBS' part to insert that into TOS-R given the deign was conceived decades after the fact.

I wonder if Matt Jefferies ever did any conceptual sketches for other space habitats besides the K-7 type.

Oh, wiat, now I recall. He did do some conceptual ideas for it, but it looked too elaborate for them to build then. But more recently I think I saw someone in the Arts forum make a 3D model on MJ's conceptual drawings. It scaled out quite a bit bigger than the K series design.

I had no idea that MJ had sketched some conceptual concepts for a Starbase. Be good to see anything coherent that any esteemed posters here have or know of.

I found it: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=225190

It's a short thread of four pages. You can see MJ's sketches on Page 1 and MGagen's finished renders on Pages 3 and 4.

 

[Wingsley]

No question about it, Matt Jefferies' sketches are fully consistent with the art style and functional design philosophy of the rest of TOS. MGagen's 3D artwork is indeed beautiful!

Too bad that Jefferies art wasn't resurrected for TOS-R; K-7 always intrigued me, but "Space Station Jefferies" is off the scale! It would've made a great addition to the TREK Universe.

FWIW, if I were recommending a space station design for TOS-R, it might borrow elements from the Jefferies design, as well as elements from other influences, such as K-7 and the Enterprise herself. I like the idea of flatter super-saucer modules, like the JJ Kelvin only with somewhat greater diameter, as station habitat. I also like the idea of using upright cylinder shapes that look like "skyscraper" buildings as multi-level office complex modules.

I have nothing against TOS-R using Masao's design, and I like the scaling of the station's size relative to the Lexington. I also would not mind seeing an isolated frontier starbase-as-a-space-station concept based on something like the K-7-either. The K-7 will aways have a special place in my heart, as it seemed like a very elegant and practical (and exciting) place to be in a TOS adventure.

Whatever floats your boat...

 

[Ithekro]

Not sure if those in charge of the 3D work for CBS even knew of Jefferies old station sketches.

 

[Warped9]

Not sure if those in charge of the 3D work for CBS even knew of Jefferies old station sketches.

Well they either knew and ignored/rejected it or someone didn't do their homework.

 

[Ithekro]

Far as I can tell, no one had really done much with that drawing until 2013, a good five years after CBS had finished with TOS-R.

 

[Warped9]

The point is it's a concept sketch for a space station by MJ himself. So if they knew about this, but chose not to use it then it says someone didn't see the potential in fleshing it out to see if it was viable. Meanwhile a fan comes along and sees something in it and fleshes it out into a practically spot on design that would have fit right into TOS.

And if they didn't know about the drawing at all then it seems to me someone either didn't look very thoroughly or they completely missed it.

The point is MJ had a perfectly viable concept drawn during TOS' production and yet they used something designed decades after the fact and retconned it into the series.

It's just too bad it was missed because it would have been another one of MJ's designs to be finally realized within the show.

 

[Wingsley]

Has anyone ever given thought to how a TOS-era starbase (planet-bound, asteroid-bound, space station or deep space campus) would defend itself? Would they have military capabilities like DS9 did, or would they rely on starships to confront an attack?

 

[Marsden]

In the Star Fleet Battles game, which is based on the series, animated series and FJ's Tech Manual, a Starbase is huge and could hold off several ships, you would need at least 6 cruisers to be able to defeat it's capabilities, but then there were usually at least a few smaller ships in the area, like police cutters, that would help with defense.

I don't know if that helps any with your question, though.

In that game, K-7 would be a base station, the smallest station and a single cruiser might be able to defeat it but it wouldn't be easy.

 

[Kemaiku]

The Starfleet Command PC games had something similar, the bases had phaser banks mounted around the upper portions of them that were a lot more powerful than a starships.

Also shields, there's no reason an orbital/space based facility with a large power plant shouldn't be able to have shields as well as weapons.

That and a much thicker hull.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Has anyone ever given thought to how a TOS-era starbase (planet-bound, asteroid-bound, space station or deep space campus) would defend itself? Would they have military capabilities like DS9 did, or would they rely on starships to confront an attack?

Actually, yes, In the book that I had been working on many years ago I postulated this:

Bases are also assigned a class to reflect their general capabilities. Class One facilities are the largest Starbases with a crew complement of upwards of thirty thousand, construction shipyards and repair docks for up to 10 starships. Somewhat smaller Starbases are Class Two, they house between fifteen and twenty thousand crewmembers, construction shipyards and repair docks for up to 6 starships. For defensive purposes both Class One and Two Starbases have a garrison force consisting of a 5-starship Task Force, 3 squadrons of Perimeter Patrol starfighters, a Battalion of Starfleet Marines and between 16 and 20 hardpoints for heavy ordinance emplacements.

Class Three facilities are the 6,000 to 8,000 man Fleet Bases, these might be best thought of as proto-starbases as most of them are expanded into full starbase facilities. To start however their capabilities are more limited with no construction capacity and repair docks for only 3 starships. For defense they are comparable to the heavier facilities but lacking the starship Task Forces and mounting only 12 hardpoints.

The 1,500 to 2,000 man Support Bases deploy 2 Perimeter Patrol Squadrons, mount 9 hardpoints and have repair docks for two starships, they are considered to be Class Four facilities. Meanwhile Outposts of 600 to 800 crewmen are Class Five bases that are situated along the Federation's borders or deep in unexplored space where they provide a haven for the starships exploring those uncharted reaches; they do this with a single repair dock, a company of Marines, 2 Patrol squadrons and 7 hardpoints mounting the heaviest ordinance possible.

The smallest bases are the Class Six Deep Space Stations. These have between 200 and 300 crewmen and are usually positioned at mid-way points between a cluster of important worlds to serve as trans-shipping points and as sector command facilities. The capabilities vary widely but all include a repair dock and a Squadron of starfighters, most mount 5 hardpoints and have a platoon of Marines attached.

It is by no means canon, but I think it makes sense all the same. I assumed that by the 24th century all bases from Class One through Four were considered to be Starbases, and many of the Outposts of the previous century had been expanded into Class Four or higher starbases.

 

[Wingsley]

^ Interesting perspective. Are you basing all of this on space stations, on based on a planet(oid), or just general specs?

 

[Timo]

We might remember that a random Cardassian outpost had compact "coastal artillery" that was on par with the guns of contemporary small combat starships. UFP surface installations might well have such things, too, as per "Arena" dialogue on the Gorn "knocking out the phaser batteries".

If the Cestus III outpost (which "didn't have anything anybody would want") warranted these defenses, it would be curious for even the smallest starbases to lack them, really.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

I'm figuring the big Class One through Three bases as mostly planet based with extensive orbital facilities. The Class Four and Five as being lunar or asteroid based with many of the Outposts literally carved into asteroids. I was recalling an old concept drawing from back in the 70s showing this. I think is was an early idea from TMP. The Class Six are obviously space stations, similar to K-7 or DS9.

 

[Patrin-Zero]

Mind these are well past the TOS broadcast era in regards to design and manufacture but either clearly reflect Matt Jefferies' styling and sense of design.

Federation B-Class Way Station

Federation G-Class Starbase