Starbase

[Wingsley]

I was sifting through some DEEP SPACE NINE stuff on the internet recently, and an idea popped into my head:

If you look at the original STAR TREK, whether it would be TOS-in-isolation or TOS and the TOS-based movies, and forget about TNG, DS9, etc., and what do we know about starbases?

They can be planet-based. We never really saw an actual "starbase" depicted as a space station in TOS, but it clearly seemed possible, didn't it? Starbase 11 obviously had a strong naval base component to it, but also seemed to have a civilian presence as well (Cogley, in "Court Martial"). There also seemed to be a Walter Reed component to Starbase 11 ("The Menagerie").

Memory Alpha has an interesting article on starbases but it seems strongly derived from TNG and DS9.

I have heard of the Vanguard series of TREK novels, but I have not read a TREK novel cover-to-cover in over 20 years. Did any of these stories actually give new depth to the Starbase concept? Did any other TREK books do this?

 

[Warped9]

Based solely on what we saw in TOS starbases appeared to be on planets, but logically it follows that there had to be orbital facilities present for starship service and repair since the starships cannot land. Sadly TOS simply couldn't afford to show us anything like that, but it does follow.

We did see space stations or at least one type: the K-7 type design. But those were specifically referred to as stations and not bases.

The first inkling we ever saw of some large and expansive orbital facility was in Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual and this was long before Phase II, TMP and the rest of the films. I don't know how much FJ consulted with Matt Jefferies about that (if at all), but it does follow the idea that the TOS era could have quite large space going facilities.

 

[Kemaiku]

Starbase 11 apparently served as one of the Federations longer range repair and refit facilties, they likely had dockyards in orbit to cover most of the TOS era designs.

It would also be safer to manufacture and store antimatter and dilithium crystals in orbit. Or house vast quantities of deuterium for refueling, material/mineral supplies for early replication/synthesisng.

The Watchtower class station from the Vanguard series becoming Starbase 6 in TOS-R was meant to be able to house 4 Constituion class starships inside the main hub.

 

[Warped9]

I really like the station designed by Masao, but that was serious retconning on CBS' part to insert that into TOS-R given the deign was conceived decades after the fact.

I wonder if Matt Jefferies ever did any conceptual sketches for other space habitats besides the K-7 type.

Oh, wiat, now I recall. He did do some conceptual ideas for it, but it looked too elaborate for them to build then. But more recently I think I saw someone in the Arts forum make a 3D model on MJ's conceptual drawings. It scaled out quite a bit bigger than the K series design.

 

[MANT!]

Starbase 6 in the original special effects suite was depicted by reused K-7 shots..

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wi...rprise_%28NCC-1701%29_approaches_starbase.jpg

therefore Starbases per TOS Canon can be space stations like K-7 (maybe larger)

 

[Warped9]

Starbase 6 in the original special effects suite was depicted by reused K-7 shots..

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wi...rprise_%28NCC-1701%29_approaches_starbase.jpg

therefore Starbases per TOS Canon can be space stations like K-7 (maybe larger)

Wrong. I just checked the episode itself ("The Ultimate Computer") and throughout it's referred to specifically as a space station. And the K design only appeared in TOS twice: "The Trouble With Tribbles" and "The Ultimate Computer."

Memory Alpha has it wrong.

Like I said TOS-R messed with this to impose their own idea.

 

[Wingsley]

Given that a "starbase" is obviously a Starfleet naval base (at least, at its heart), would it be reasonable to extrapolate that if a "starbase" could conceivably be established as a deep-space campus (not one on a planet surface), that it need not be a single structure/vessel, but instead it could be a more sprawling complex of stations, dockyards, and other facilities floating in deep space, or in orbit?

The notion of a base or colony being located on a small Pluto-like planetoid or asteroid can't be discounted, either. Earth Outpost Four was located deep inside an asteroid made of "solid iron" ("Balance of Terror"), while Memory Alpha was a totally non-military station located on a planetoid ("The Lights of Zetar") and the Yonada colony was a multi-generational sublight starship built-into a hollowed-out asteroid ("For the World Is Hollow, And I Have Touched the Sky"). While none of these are Federation starbases, the existence of these structures does lend itself to the notion that a starbase could be established on (or within) such a body, does it not?

 

[FormerLurker]

^Well, Earth Outpost Four and Memory Alpha were Federation, actually. They weren't Starfleet, and therefore would not have been Starbases, at least by association. But they were in fact Federation all the way.

And Outpost Four may have been Starfleet. It just wasn't a Starbase. And why would it be? Who wants to antagonize an unknown neighbor/opponent by having a military/paramilitary installation meant for regular visitation by local military/paramilitary traffic watching from their doorstep? That just invites trouble. As it was, the Romulan ship that destroyed the outposts probably had to scan for signs they were there to locate them. Just randomly destroying all the asteroids on the border would have announced their intentions long before they did real damage, unless they got in a lucky shot somewhere.

 

[Warped9]

Given that a "starbase" is obviously a Starfleet naval base (at least, at its heart), would it be reasonable to extrapolate that if a "starbase" could conceivably be established as a deep-space campus (not one on a planet surface), that it need not be a single structure/vessel, but instead it could be a more sprawling complex of stations, dockyards, and other facilities floating in deep space, or in orbit?

The notion of a base or colony being located on a small Pluto-like planetoid or asteroid can't be discounted, either. Earth Outpost Four was located deep inside an asteroid made of "solid iron" ("Balance of Terror"), while Memory Alpha was a totally non-military station located on a planetoid ("The Lights of Zetar") and the Yonada colony was a multi-generational sublight starship built-into a hollowed-out asteroid ("For the World Is Hollow, And I Have Touched the Sky"). While none of these are Federation starbases, the existence of these structures does lend itself to the notion that a starbase could be established on (or within) such a body, does it not?

Yes, given that a "star" base could indeed be space going or even inside a hollowed out asteroid. I agree with this and I'm not saying it doesn't exist in TOS or was never intended otherwise. I'm merely saying TOS never showed it to us on screen because they couldn't afford to.

The Starbase 6 referenced in an above post is not established specifically one way or another in TOS and citing "The Ultimate Computer" in TOS-R is wrong because Starbase 6 isn't even mentioned in that episode or, more importantly, in the original version of the episode (which I have on DVD).

 

[Timo]

I have little to add but the idea that "Starbase X" generally tends to be our heroes' shorthand for "The planet or star system that among lots of other things holds Starbase X". Basically, they are calling the entire Hawaii "Pearl" because that's the only thing that matters to them.

What we see is generally a tiny part of the whole - but conversely, when we see a whole, the starbase might actually be but a tiny part. In certain cases, it might be just two offices inside an otherwise commercial or civilian space station; in others, a certain district in a city.

TOS already seems to promote the idea that not all starbases are created equal. SB 11 might be a major starship repair center, helping explain the coincidence of so many Enterprise-related characters being there at the same time (Kirk and his current and former crew, Jamie Finney, Chris Pike, Kirk's old flame Shaw, a "rare breed" ex-starship-CO Stone). SB 2 seems to be worth a detour for medical excellence. Etc. The facilities need not be of equal size, either, and many might lack capabilities for actually servicing starships much.

The Starbase 6 referenced in an above post is not established specifically one way or another in TOS and citing "The Ultimate Computer" in TOS-R is wrong because Starbase 6 isn't even mentioned in that episode or, more importantly, in the original version of the episode (which I have on DVD).

In theory, that identity is scribbled on the side of the station we see, but thankfully it's way too small to be legible.

Then again, there's nothing wrong with having that Canopus-related station be SB6 or element thereof. In the two episodes where that base does make a dialogue appearance, "Immunity Syndrome" and "Schitzoid Man", it's otherwise nondescript but associated with the frontier and disassociated with known threats - in short, ideal for wargames...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[GSchnitzer]

I have little to add but the idea that "Starbase X" generally tends to be our heroes' shorthand for "The planet or star system that among lots of other things holds Starbase X". Basically, they are calling the entire Hawaii "Pearl" because that's the only thing that matters to them.

Although there seem to be exceptions to that. FWIW, there's the following content from "The Man Trap:"

"Message, Captain. Starship base on Corinth IV requesting explanation of our delay here, sir. Space Commander Dominguez says we have supplies he urgently needs."

 

[Ssosmcin]

Seems to me that a Starbase is a "Starfleet Base" (or Sharship Base as Greg quoted) and is on a planet, while a space station (like K-7) is, well, a space station. Even TUC made something of a distinction:

SPOCK: The dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the Neutral Zone

A Starbase would have all the facilities of a Naval Base, which probably requires a lot more real estate than can be found on a space station.

 

[Marsden]

My small contribution to this thread, as a "Starship" was not really clearly defined, a "Starbase" was not, either. I think this is actually a smart thing for the creators and a bad thing for us that want details explained and cataloged and have books and manuals about it.

 

[Kemaiku]

I did some further reading on Starbase 6 on Memory Beta and a 1980's TOS novel described it as a very large base with a wide circular top section for starships.

It doesn't say much past that, but it looks like that was the cue CBS took to insert the Watchtower design into the episode.

Probably easier rendering an existing design, or maybe they had a low level render to use as a visual aid for making the Vanguard novel artwork.

 

[Warped9]

My small contribution to this thread, as a "Starship" was not really clearly defined, a "Starbase" was not, either. I think this is actually a smart thing for the creators and a bad thing for us that want details explained and cataloged and have books and manuals about it.

Essentially this.

TOS doesn't tell us much. Neither do the films. Everything after that in regard to TOS is speculation and retconning.

The new design of station seen in the TOS-R version of "The Ultimate Computer" is a nice design, but it muddies the water in terms of what the original thinking might have been during TOS' production because in the episode the construct is specifically referred to throughout as a station and not a base.

Since they were building something from scratch why didn't they just go back to MJ's original concept sketches for a station? That would have been closer to original intent.

 

[Albertese]

...
Since they were building something from scratch why didn't they just go back to MJ's original concept sketches for a station? That would have been closer to original intent.

Well given that the station model they did use was from a currently published series of novels, I suspect some marketing cross-pollination.

--Alex

 

[Warped9]

...
Since they were building something from scratch why didn't they just go back to MJ's original concept sketches for a station? That would have been closer to original intent.

Well given that the station model they did use was from a currently published series of novels, I suspect some marketing cross-pollination.

--Alex

Which goes back to the retconning I mentioned.

 

[GSchnitzer]

"We had originally planned to re-use the K-7 model for the 'The Ultimate Computer,' just as in the original version of the episode. It was producer Dave Rossi who came in with one of Doug Drexler's book covers, showing Masao's wonderful design. We immediately contacted John Van Citters and Paula Block at CBS Consumer Products to ask for permission to use the design. Once they said 'yes' (which didn't take long!), we asked Niel Wray, the visual effects supervisor at CBS Digital if it would be possible to add the new station at this relatively late point in the production cycle. Niel was excited about adding the station, but he was cautious because we really were coming down the wire in terms of schedule and budget, which were always tight anyway.

"The CBS Digital version of Masao's station was modeled by a talented artist named Apollo Kim (what a great name for someone working on Trek!), and animated by Eric Ehemann and Chris Barsamian. Other talented members of the CBS Digital crew who worked on the model station were digital texture painter Sun Chung, lighting technical director Brian Vogt, and compositor James Holt.

"They pretty much followed Doug's rendering of Masao's design, but I asked them to make a couple of tweaks. First, I asked them to reduce the overall scale of the station. In the original series, Gene was pretty clear that he wanted the Enterprise to be the biggest, most powerful ship in the fleet. Even though the station isn't a ship, I didn't want it to dwarf the Enterprise too much. The station just had to be big enough that you'd believe it could absorb the 400 members of the Enterprise crew.

"Also, I knew that we'd only see it briefly with the Lexington docked. I didn't want the Lexington to disappear in that quick shot, so I wanted to make the ship as large as possible with relationship to the station. Finally, I asked them to tweak the station's arms so that the edge of the Lexington's saucer could dock directly with the station. Naturally, I was a little nervous about what Masao and Doug would think about what we'd done with their station, but fortunately, both said they liked it!"

Read more about the "Starbase 6 model" at:

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Starbase_6_model

 

[Ithekro]

I see that as a better use of resources than a retcon. What difference does it make that they made the station not look like stock footage of K7? Not like every station or base looks the same.

What possible significance could there be in holding this change against people?

 

[Timo]

Indeed, whenever TOS reuses footage, it generally suffers a drop in plausibility - the reuses are very poorly rationalized (Botany Bay for Woden is especially bad, flat out contradicting everything stated in "Space Seed") and add nothing to the show. TOS-R is a definite improvement in that respect.

Adding diversity for diversity's sake is a different issue, but it really doesn't happen in TOS-R, not as accused. It's a good thing that a military starbase looks different from the shack that the annoying Baris bosses over, and it's dramatically useful to show that the three Romulan ships in "The Enterprise Incident" actually are Romulan rather than Klingon, say.

Just plain fucking up is a different category yet. The meek Klingon "scoutship" in "Friday's Child" had every reason to escape in TOS, but making him a mighty battle cruiser in TOS-R goes against the dramatic intent... But that's a minority issue, really.

Timo Saloniemi