Star Trek TMP Kubrick verses Trumbull

[SteveG]

Forcing myself to watch 2001 a Space Odyssey again as an adult, convinced I would be able to understand it through grown up eyes, I was struck by how similar the structure of the movie is to Star trek the motion picture.

The FX shots in 2001 were directed by Kubrick (according to the credits) and I suppose Douglas Trumbull might have just been copying Kubrick; with the large rotating space station over earth, sections under construction, shuttle ferrying people from station to ship and extremely long establishing shots of the main vessels near the start oo the movie.

Later, when Bowman is experiencing the lavishly long Slit Scan effect sequence as he does that inter dimensional journey, parallels can be drawn between the extremely visually interesting but exceedingly long trip to the centre of the cloud sequence in TMP - in fact it could be argued that this has more in common with Spocks space walk into V'ger.

The interior design of muted clean colours, the cool precision of the actors diction in both movies, the almost complete lack of humor, the way the starships almost steal the show - was Trumbull heavily influenced by Kubrick or did Kubrick take credit for Trumbells direction? Or was Star Trek the Motion picture designed to mimic 2001 to such an extent that Robert Wise was considering being un-credited as director?

I'm guessing its the Trumbull effect as both 2001 (Kubrick) and the Andromeda strain/TMP had a very similar style (Directed by Robert Wise) and all three had Douglas Trumbull in charge of the effects.

Just spit-balling but the similarity between the two is interesting, almost as though its the same universe just different times.

Steve

 

[Kor]

I don't see how the stylistic/visual similarities in TMP could have not been influenced by 2001. But 2001 is stronger in its narrative than TMP.

Kor

 

[pfontaine2]

I think that Star Trek:The Motion Picture was definitely designed to mimic 2001.

At the time that Star Trek:TMP was a glimmer in Roddenberry's eye (pre-Star Wars), 2001 was the benchmark of Science Fiction films and I'm presuming that Roddenberry wanted to make ST:TMP in 2001's image. This desire to make an important Science Fiction film is reflected in aspects of the film as you suggested; the muted clean colors, the cool precision of the actor's diction in both movies, and the almost complete lack of humor. I'm guessing that it's wasn't Trumbull's desire to mimic 2001 but he was more than willing to give the director and producer the 2001 look and feel everyone wanted.

As a result, you have under construction space stations orbiting the earth in both films, long sequences of space ships traveling from one location to another (such as the moon shuttle to Calvius Moon Base vs. the inspection flight around the Enterprise). The trip through Vger's outer cloud barrier seems very much inspired by the slit-scan trip that Bowman takes at the end of 2001 and was realized using an advanced version of the same technology.

Something to keep in mind as well...Trumbull needed to produce all the special effects in less that 11 month's time because of first effects team was fired from the move. Trumbull could be excused for designing and executing shots that are familiar to what he did before. In fact, the Spock space walk was a "quick fix" solution to the aborted scene of Kirk and Spock exploring the interior of Vger. Trumbull suggested that scene already filmed be completely scrapped knowing that if he filmed Nimoy in a static position, he could superimpose special effects footage on helmet's visor and to reuse the same footage as Spock's POV.

I think that Kubrick's screen credit as director of special effects is accurate...he planned on the shots he wanted and approved the exposure tests so that the image on screen was exactly what he wanted and matched the aesthetic of the rest of the film. However, Kubrick did not execute the effects shots. The various effects shots were created by various teams supervised by Con Pederson, Tom Howard, Wally Veevers and Doug Trumbull.

Trumbull was specifically responsible for some table-top miniatures of the moon surface, the various screen readouts on the various ships and of course the slit-scan portions of the Star Gate sequence (other portions of the sequence were achieved by solarizing exiting footage or with macro-photography to create exploding nebula-type effects).

The two films are definitely related in look and tone but again, I feel that these were decisions handed down to Trumbull from Roddenberry and Wise rather than other way around.

 

[Daddy Todd]

I'm presuming that Roddenberry wanted to make ST:TMP in 2001's image.

I see what you did there.

 

[pfontaine2]

Yeah...a subtle nod to TMP!

 

[gottacook]

Some points of similarity have been raised above, but I feel that TMP resembles Peter Hyams' 2010 * more than it does 2001: A Space Odyssey. All three have impressive effects, but 2010 and TMP are both full of explanations (or attempted explanations), whereas 2001 is all about mystery, about letting you draw your own conclusions. Indeed, the last spoken words of 2001 (at the end of the video of Dr. Floyd, which starts up just after Bowman deactivates HAL) are "...its origin and purpose still a total mystery."

I haven't seen The Andromeda Strain in a while - I actually read the Crichton novel before the movie came out; it was a book-club edition my parents received - but I recall it having a good bit less dialogue than TMP. In that respect it resembles 2001 more than TMP does.

As for saying 2001 and TMP resemble each other in their "almost complete lack of humor": I respectfully disagree. When I convinced my parents to see 2001 with me when it finally came to my home town (I'd seen it the previous year in Philadelphia), my mother cracked up when HAL, during his deactivation scene, says to Bowman, "Look, Dave... I can see you're really upset about this." (I snuck a cassette recorder into the theater to get some of the dialogue because none was on the soundtrack LP, so I have this on tape somewhere.) And there are other funny moments, like the no-dialogue scene when Dr. Floyd, on his way to the Moon, is confronted with the zero-gravity toilet instructions. By contrast, TMP has a few allegedly witty lines of dialogue, but mostly the movie is rather dire; no line is one-tenth as funny as "Who's been holding up the damn elevator?" in TWoK.

* Somehow a number of sources have gotten the idea that "The Year We Make Contact" - a slogan used on posters, etc., for 2010 upon its release in 1984 - is actually the subtitle of the movie. It isn't; the movie has no subtitle (that of Clarke's novel was "Odyssey Two").

 

[Maurice]

The interior design of muted clean colours, the cool precision of the actors diction in both movies, the almost complete lack of humor, the way the starships almost steal the show - was Trumbull heavily influenced by Kubrick or did Kubrick take credit for Trumbells direction?

Trumbull had nothing to do with those aspects of the film. He joined the production well after principle photography wrapped.

 

[Vger23]

I have never seen a single parallel between 2001 and TMP other than the fact that they are both slower-paced science fiction films with great special effects.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

I think that 2001 was undoubtedly a visual touchstone for a lot of TMP. However, I don't feel that that conclusion in any way diminishes the achievements of TMP as a whole. It's not like they copied story ideas or even any actual visuals for the film, it was just there in the back of their minds.

 

[RColtrane]

Some points of similarity have been raised above, but I feel that TMP resembles Peter Hyams' 2010 * more than it does 2001: A Space Odyssey.

^This! Perfect comparison, to me TMP resembles 2010 more than 2001, despite the fact that 2010 came after TMP. And since Trumbull did the effects for all these 3 movies, its understandable why they all look alike.

And yes, both TMP and 2010 explains too much, but I think that it harmed 2010 way more deeper than TMP.

 

[Kor]

Thematically, 2001 and TMP are kind of opposites.
In 2001 humankind only advances with the intervention of superior beings. But in TMP the superior being needs humanity in order to advance further.

Kor

 

[Galileo7]

2OO1:A Space Odyssey and Star Trek:The Motion Picture are both favorite films of mine for what they aspired to be and visually achieved in storytelling. TMP is the 2OO1 of all the thirteen Star Trek films.

 

[pfontaine2]

^This! Perfect comparison, to me TMP resembles 2010 more than 2001, despite the fact that 2010 came after TMP. And since Trumbull did the effects for all these 3 movies, its understandable why they all look alike.

And yes, both TMP and 2010 explains too much, but I think that it harmed 2010 way more deeper than TMP.

Doug Trumbull did not work on the effects on 2010. The effects for 2010 film were handled by Richard Edlund's Boss Film Studio. Edlund was one of the people responsible for Star Wars special optical effects who opened his own effects studio and did 2010, Ghostbusters and other films. The film was directed by Peter Hyams and much of the film was designed by Syd Mead.

Around the time that 2010 was released, Trumbull had already completed his second film called "Brainstorm". Tired of Hollywood, he decided to leave the film business to open his own company in western Massachusetts to continue experiments with his Showscan process and to develop immersive theme park rides (like the Back To The Future ride at Universal Studios).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As for saying 2001 and TMP resemble each other in their "almost complete lack of humor": I respectfully disagree. When I convinced my parents to see 2001 with me when it finally came to my home town (I'd seen it the previous year in Philadelphia), my mother cracked up when HAL, during his deactivation scene, says to Bowman, "Look, Dave... I can see you're really upset about this." (I snuck a cassette recorder into the theater to get some of the dialogue because none was on the soundtrack LP, so I have this on tape somewhere.) And there are other funny moments, like the no-dialogue scene when Dr. Floyd, on his way to the Moon, is confronted with the zero-gravity toilet instructions. By contrast, TMP has a few allegedly witty lines of dialogue, but mostly the movie is rather dire; no line is one-tenth as funny as "Who's been holding up the damn elevator?" in TWoK.

It's no coincidence that what little humor exists in 2001 comes from HAL (albeit accidentally) or other various non-human sources. The human characters in the film were intentionally made to sound wooden and emotionless, like characters from Dragnet. (For instance, look at how Frank Poole reacts when his parents send him the birthday greetings. He barely does ANYTHING. He just stares at the screen like a robot.)

About the only human emotion ever expressed in 2001 is when Dave is trying to get back into Discovery and is arguing with HAL. And even then, it's not that much.

 

[Kor]

One time many years ago, I watched 2001 while stuck at home zonked out on prescription narcotic painkillers after a dental surgery. It was different.

Kor

 

[gottacook]

For instance, look at how Frank Poole reacts when his parents send him the birthday greetings. He barely does ANYTHING. He just stares at the screen like a robot.

Well, to be fair, Frank knows (and we know that he knows) that he's watching a video greeting card, a transmission that has taken a long time to get to him from Earth; it's not as if he were in conversation with his parents.

 

[Kor]

Well, to be fair, Frank knows (and we know that he knows) that he's watching a video greeting card, a transmission that has taken a long time to get to him from Earth; it's not as if he were in conversation with his parents.

I think most people would at least smile if they received such a video message, or a card, etc.

Kor

 

[RColtrane]

Doug Trumbull did not work on the effects on 2010. The effects for 2010 film were handled by Richard Edlund's Boss Film Studio. Edlund was one of the people responsible for Star Wars special optical effects who opened his own effects studio and did 2010, Ghostbusters and other films. The film was directed by Peter Hyams and much of the film was designed by Syd Mead.

Around the time that 2010 was released, Trumbull had already completed his second film called "Brainstorm". Tired of Hollywood, he decided to leave the film business to open his own company in western Massachusetts to continue experiments with his Showscan process and to develop immersive theme park rides (like the Back To The Future ride at Universal Studios).

Yep, i made a mistake! Thanks for the explanation!!!

 

[gottacook]

I think most people would at least smile if they received such a video message, or a card, etc.

I guess you never came across that excised chapter of Clarke's 3001: The Final Odyssey where the resurrected Poole reminisces about how much he loathed his parents.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

excised chapter of Clarke's 3001: The Final Odyssey where the resurrected Poole reminisces about how much he loathed his parents.

Please tell me you're joking...