Would be a funny revenge if ENT messes up the TNG series finale.
Yeah. It all takes place in a holographic novel written by Laris, who wants to Jean-Luc to make the right choice about his decision to live the quiet life with her.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yeah. It all takes place in a holographic novel written by Laris, who wants to Jean-Luc to make the right choice about his decision to live the quiet life with her.
That was the best episode of the season so far. I’m not a huge Worf fan (I think his schtick is overdone) but I really enjoyed his and Raffi’s interplay here. And glad the changeling reveal came sooner rather than later. Obviously the bigger weapon from Daystrom is Lore. The only question is: Why would the rogue changelings need an android?
I did enjoy the Picard/Crusher scene, while a little soapy, was well-done. Sorry to see Shaw sidelined but with so many command level officers on Titan, it was bound to happen. The bit with Jack and the figment of Seven saying something about the branches was interesting. Not sure what that has to do with.
Titan is in an interesting predicament and the Crimson Tide-ness of the Picard/Riker argument here is excellent. I myself am Team Riker. It makes more sense in this situation when you’re outgunned to not risk your crew. And the fight mentality doesn’t really feel like Picard. But people change. That’s the whole point of this series.
Oh and the deaging on Picard and Riker was TERRIBLE. Beyond uncanny valley. Get ILM on that shit. They seem to know what they’re doing.
8/10.
I did enjoy the Picard/Crusher scene, while a little soapy, was well-done. Sorry to see Shaw sidelined but with so many command level officers on Titan, it was bound to happen. The bit with Jack and the figment of Seven saying something about the branches was interesting. Not sure what that has to do with.
Titan is in an interesting predicament and the Crimson Tide-ness of the Picard/Riker argument here is excellent. I myself am Team Riker. It makes more sense in this situation when you’re outgunned to not risk your crew. And the fight mentality doesn’t really feel like Picard. But people change. That’s the whole point of this series.
Oh and the deaging on Picard and Riker was TERRIBLE. Beyond uncanny valley. Get ILM on that shit. They seem to know what they’re doing.
8/10.
I liked this episode a lot, more than last week. I like that we are getting answers, or appear to, and they aren't dragging it out.
It was cool that the Changelings are back, and I finally get to see a TNG/Dominion War kind of story on screen, though I feel a TNG-era antagonist (parasites, Schism aliens, etc.) fit the TNG reunion theme more (that said, the powers that be did say for a while now that this would be a celebration of Trek across the board and they are delivering on that). That said, I liked the idea of finding some way to include ENT. Heck, if they had just had a Denobulan or Xindi character on Titan that could do it for me.
Even though I don't agree with Beverly's decision to not tell Picard about Jack (and I found her defense that she gave Jack the option to get to know Picard when he was an adult lacking and disingenuous), I think McFadden and Stewart acted their scenes very well, and it felt to me that McFadden really enjoyed adding this kind of complication and complexity to Crusher. Patrick Stewart also did a great job, and they even found a nice way to nod to season 2 with his father, and the reminder of that season didn't make me cringe.
I enjoyed the Raffi/Worf team up. I like that he calls her Raffaela. And I like his new outfit and weapon. About the only thing I don't care for regarding Worf's look is the full mustache, but that's just a quibble. I wasn't sure myself if their prisoner was going through withdrawals or really was a Changeling (I wasn't sure about the Starfleet guy either because his face changed so quickly. I was wondering if it was the aliens from that episode where they wiped the crew's memories and inserted Commander MacDuff). I was confused about how Worf, who I guess isn't working with Starfleet (or part of Starfleet anymore) became Raffi's handler (makes me wonder if Section 31 is somehow involved). I did like the allusion to Odo though as the reason how Worf got involved.
I liked how Ensign La Forge was used here, and I hope we see more of a friendship with her and Seven. I thought they had Seven sitting on the sidelines too much at first (I was wondering why Riker hadn't just rescinded Shaw's order right off), but then with her team up with Jack, it made more sense to me.
I liked Riker taking command again, and that his conflict with Picard was rooted in them trying to survive, which I wasn't expecting. I'm so used to seeing them working together, basically agreeing with each other. And I liked how they were both right and both wrong in some respects. I do think the writing went a little zero to sixty to get them personally angry with each other, but I can chalk that up to the stress of the moment.
I liked how Vadic was depicted this episode. Less is more far as I'm concerned with her character. Let the menacing ship and her smoking on the darkened bridge do more of the work. I also liked how the super weapon was used this episode a lot too, and how it wasn't even the real threat.
My hope is that next week we finally get Geordi back, and that by the end of the season we get more DS9 characters. If no one else, Colm Meaney should be on this season. I would love if they could weave in some of the ideas from the writer's room segment on the DS9 documentary as well.
It was cool that the Changelings are back, and I finally get to see a TNG/Dominion War kind of story on screen, though I feel a TNG-era antagonist (parasites, Schism aliens, etc.) fit the TNG reunion theme more (that said, the powers that be did say for a while now that this would be a celebration of Trek across the board and they are delivering on that). That said, I liked the idea of finding some way to include ENT. Heck, if they had just had a Denobulan or Xindi character on Titan that could do it for me.
Even though I don't agree with Beverly's decision to not tell Picard about Jack (and I found her defense that she gave Jack the option to get to know Picard when he was an adult lacking and disingenuous), I think McFadden and Stewart acted their scenes very well, and it felt to me that McFadden really enjoyed adding this kind of complication and complexity to Crusher. Patrick Stewart also did a great job, and they even found a nice way to nod to season 2 with his father, and the reminder of that season didn't make me cringe.
I enjoyed the Raffi/Worf team up. I like that he calls her Raffaela. And I like his new outfit and weapon. About the only thing I don't care for regarding Worf's look is the full mustache, but that's just a quibble. I wasn't sure myself if their prisoner was going through withdrawals or really was a Changeling (I wasn't sure about the Starfleet guy either because his face changed so quickly. I was wondering if it was the aliens from that episode where they wiped the crew's memories and inserted Commander MacDuff). I was confused about how Worf, who I guess isn't working with Starfleet (or part of Starfleet anymore) became Raffi's handler (makes me wonder if Section 31 is somehow involved). I did like the allusion to Odo though as the reason how Worf got involved.
I liked how Ensign La Forge was used here, and I hope we see more of a friendship with her and Seven. I thought they had Seven sitting on the sidelines too much at first (I was wondering why Riker hadn't just rescinded Shaw's order right off), but then with her team up with Jack, it made more sense to me.
I liked Riker taking command again, and that his conflict with Picard was rooted in them trying to survive, which I wasn't expecting. I'm so used to seeing them working together, basically agreeing with each other. And I liked how they were both right and both wrong in some respects. I do think the writing went a little zero to sixty to get them personally angry with each other, but I can chalk that up to the stress of the moment.
I liked how Vadic was depicted this episode. Less is more far as I'm concerned with her character. Let the menacing ship and her smoking on the darkened bridge do more of the work. I also liked how the super weapon was used this episode a lot too, and how it wasn't even the real threat.
My hope is that next week we finally get Geordi back, and that by the end of the season we get more DS9 characters. If no one else, Colm Meaney should be on this season. I would love if they could weave in some of the ideas from the writer's room segment on the DS9 documentary as well.
Oh God...and there's a Jack on board....After being told to go faster for bragging rights about Titan's efficiency, Titan is now sinking... because it was hit by something bright... should've been an Olympic class in April 2412
Yeah...it was basically skin smoothening and darkening of Riker's beard and hair. The beard and hair looked okay but the skin was too smooth (especially under the eyes). The retouching could have been done a bit more careful. You don't need ILM for this.
Not objective, just opinion.
You’re right, you don’t need them. I’m just suggesting that ILM seems to have the method down pretty well these days. There was something about Riker’s eyes that were way off too.
Outstanding episode! 9/10.
Had the same thought as others about Riker blaming Picard at the end. Riker, as Captain, should take responsibility for his orders and not blame the person that suggested them like he did. But these characters are human, and not perfect, so I accept that they can make mistakes or act irrationally.
Also wondered why 7 wasn't released by Riker. I just thought maybe he was too busy/focused on survival to really worry about it.
Possible flaw/plot hole: Why was changeling who paid Sneed under that human form *still* in the same human form to be discovered? After completing his mission why not change to another form/alien face?
DS9 is my favorite Trek so really happy to see references to the Dominion war! Worf was great in this. Loved that despite this being a "battle" episode it didn't feel too fast paced with non stop action and there was room for the characters to talk and scenes to breathe.
Had the same thought as others about Riker blaming Picard at the end. Riker, as Captain, should take responsibility for his orders and not blame the person that suggested them like he did. But these characters are human, and not perfect, so I accept that they can make mistakes or act irrationally.
Also wondered why 7 wasn't released by Riker. I just thought maybe he was too busy/focused on survival to really worry about it.
Possible flaw/plot hole: Why was changeling who paid Sneed under that human form *still* in the same human form to be discovered? After completing his mission why not change to another form/alien face?
DS9 is my favorite Trek so really happy to see references to the Dominion war! Worf was great in this. Loved that despite this being a "battle" episode it didn't feel too fast paced with non stop action and there was room for the characters to talk and scenes to breathe.
in sickbay there was what seems an updated/homage to ENT uniforms If I saw and interpreted it correctly.
Around 10 mins into the episode Crusher is treating a crew member in sickbay and the Titan's (main?) doc comes after her and protective Jack comes between them.
Last edited:
From the shots of Harrison Ford for Indy 5, it looks pretty damned good. But to each his own, I guess.
Best ep of the season so far! The highlights:
- That big Beverly/Picard scene, damn! I had to rewind immediately and watch it twice in a row.
- The Changeling reveal was exceptionally done, I got chills.
- Worf & Raffi could carry a whole spin-off.
- I love this Jack Crusher actor. Technically too old for the part, but he nails it, I see why they cast him.
- My big worry about this season has been that Troi would not be well-served -- they had such intriguing pre-season teases for every character, except Troi. And there's so little of her in any of the trailers. I'd been hoping that was just because her material was particularly spoiler-y, but that Shrill Sitcom Wife bit did not fill me with confidence. Still hoping they'll pull out something great for her.
- That de-aging was unbelievably bad. I had to get up and move away from the TV. tt was upsetting to look at from a normal distance.
I wonder how much they paid for those effects. If it was more than $10, they got taken.
It also wasn't necessary. Just dim that lighting a bit more, and we can all pretend they look younger in the faint bar glow, and that would have worked fine. Realism is great and all, but I'm willing to make allowances for the fact that it's not possible to de-age real human beings for a TV show.
Last edited:
I was hoping there would be a better reason why Beverly never told Picard. That Jack was in London while Picard was sitting on his ass in France - definitely not in any way in the front lines of anything - for years makes it so much worse.
Beverly has always been my favourite. She's tended to be a character who gets comparatively overlooked - people often just make ghost jokes or misremember her as mostly just carer/mom. Which is grand. But I do worry she's going to have a lot more haters from now on.
The accidental pregnancy seems implausible. That said, the idea that she spent a month trying to tell Picard, only to have somebody shoot or kidnap him every time cracked me up. I pictured it like a Loony Tunes skit.
Beverly has always been my favourite. She's tended to be a character who gets comparatively overlooked - people often just make ghost jokes or misremember her as mostly just carer/mom. Which is grand. But I do worry she's going to have a lot more haters from now on.
The accidental pregnancy seems implausible. That said, the idea that she spent a month trying to tell Picard, only to have somebody shoot or kidnap him every time cracked me up. I pictured it like a Loony Tunes skit.
I do wonder when I see post like yours that my eye sight is failing me as I never seem to find the de-aging to be as glaring or uncanny valley as others.
On the flip side, I also don't find things to be as dark as some say it is.
This isn't a dig by any means at you (and others) but I don't have a film background so have no knowledge from a technical standpoint and I have never noticed any particular issues with the CGI and aging/deaging.
Like what am I missing/should I be looking out for? Is it just that I don't have a new enough/high grade enough TV to watch things on?
No I think they were also changelings, that’s why they left weird residue behind when Beverly vaporized them.
Yes.
I forgot about that particular one and I still think it looks horrid.
To each his own.
Liked this one the best of the three, but it's still just an 8 or 9 for me.
Great:
Worf, he even made Raffi enjoyable
The villains being changelings and the tie ins to DS9
Amanda Plummer is still doing a great job
the acting in the Picard and Beverly scene, really great stuff from both of them
Bad:
the de-aging was horrible omg, so uncanny valley there for a few moments
Beverly's reason for keeping Jack away was so weak
Reviews saying that that's one of Troi's only two scenes in the first six episodes does not fill me with confidence that they have anything good for her in last four episodes either
Still no sign of when Geordi gets involved in all this
Great:
Worf, he even made Raffi enjoyable
The villains being changelings and the tie ins to DS9
Amanda Plummer is still doing a great job
the acting in the Picard and Beverly scene, really great stuff from both of them
Bad:
the de-aging was horrible omg, so uncanny valley there for a few moments
Beverly's reason for keeping Jack away was so weak
Reviews saying that that's one of Troi's only two scenes in the first six episodes does not fill me with confidence that they have anything good for her in last four episodes either
Still no sign of when Geordi gets involved in all this
Why am I getting the vibe on second watch that the Changeling on the Titan took Jack's form and now is in prime tactical position? Jack's vision of Seven and the roots (links? hive mind?) was rather curious. The ship may look dead in the water, but we know Starfleet crews are pretty resourceful when the odds are against them. They will doubtless escape. Which has been anticipated. And the rogue Changelings probably wouldn't sacrifice one of their own.
CAPTAIN SHAW: Send somebody down to look out the goddam back window!
Second favorite line from this episode!
CAPTAIN SHAW: Send somebody down to look out the goddam back window!
Second favorite line from this episode!
While I had my quibbles here and there, I thought this was a big, big step up from the first two episodes in virtually every way.
Kudos to the episode for having the title actually mean something within the episode itself, and mirroring Riker's own remembrance of his time in the turbolift with Jean Luc's at the end. The cat-and-mouse in the nebula was suitably tense. The episode actually got me to feel a feeling about fatherhood and loss - not full on misty eyed, but close enough, and really a rarity in modern Trek. Almost everyone put in their best performances of the season to date, with Stewart's scene in the medbay probably the best acting he's put in across all of Picard (and kudos for finding a smart way to actually reference seasons 1 and 2). The season arc is also moving along at a solid clip - they could have kept the mystery box going, but most of the big questions introduced in Episode 1 have already been answered (other than what the nefarious plan actually is, and why they care about Picard). There are also coherent character arcs for both Picard and Riker over the course of the episode...and it ends on one of the better cliffhangers in Trek history.
I am fine with the Changelings being involved personally. Certainly better than the stupid fankwank idea that we'd have the parasites from Conspiracy return. Ultimately the best antagonists are those with understandable motivations, and the Federation outright attempted genocide against the Changelings, so they certainly have ample reason for vengeance. My only concern really is that Picard himself wasn't involved in the Dominion War in any real way, which is why I would have preferred if it had something to do with the Maquis instead. Seems pretty clear the Changelings are going to be breaking Lore out of prison for some reason, but I hope there's more here than that.
As for the negatives, I still feel like the dialogue is a bit clunky and unnatural in places. Yes, Star Trek dialogue is always a bit clunky and expositional, but there were a lot of moments (like LaForge's heart-to-heart with Seven) where I was just brought out of the scene because real humans don't speak like that. It's weird, because I feel like the episode was very smartly written in terms of the flow of action, the plotting, the characterization, the themes - literally the only issue with the writing is some clunky dialogue.
My other issue with this episode is Raffi. She's helped a lot being paired with Worf, but it still feels like she walked off of another show. Michelle Hurd is just overacting in a way no one else is onscreen. I can't fully suspend disbelief when she's in scenes any longer unfortunately.
Still, on the whole, a notable step up, and a good omen for the remainder of the season.
Kudos to the episode for having the title actually mean something within the episode itself, and mirroring Riker's own remembrance of his time in the turbolift with Jean Luc's at the end. The cat-and-mouse in the nebula was suitably tense. The episode actually got me to feel a feeling about fatherhood and loss - not full on misty eyed, but close enough, and really a rarity in modern Trek. Almost everyone put in their best performances of the season to date, with Stewart's scene in the medbay probably the best acting he's put in across all of Picard (and kudos for finding a smart way to actually reference seasons 1 and 2). The season arc is also moving along at a solid clip - they could have kept the mystery box going, but most of the big questions introduced in Episode 1 have already been answered (other than what the nefarious plan actually is, and why they care about Picard). There are also coherent character arcs for both Picard and Riker over the course of the episode...and it ends on one of the better cliffhangers in Trek history.
I am fine with the Changelings being involved personally. Certainly better than the stupid fankwank idea that we'd have the parasites from Conspiracy return. Ultimately the best antagonists are those with understandable motivations, and the Federation outright attempted genocide against the Changelings, so they certainly have ample reason for vengeance. My only concern really is that Picard himself wasn't involved in the Dominion War in any real way, which is why I would have preferred if it had something to do with the Maquis instead. Seems pretty clear the Changelings are going to be breaking Lore out of prison for some reason, but I hope there's more here than that.
As for the negatives, I still feel like the dialogue is a bit clunky and unnatural in places. Yes, Star Trek dialogue is always a bit clunky and expositional, but there were a lot of moments (like LaForge's heart-to-heart with Seven) where I was just brought out of the scene because real humans don't speak like that. It's weird, because I feel like the episode was very smartly written in terms of the flow of action, the plotting, the characterization, the themes - literally the only issue with the writing is some clunky dialogue.
My other issue with this episode is Raffi. She's helped a lot being paired with Worf, but it still feels like she walked off of another show. Michelle Hurd is just overacting in a way no one else is onscreen. I can't fully suspend disbelief when she's in scenes any longer unfortunately.
Still, on the whole, a notable step up, and a good omen for the remainder of the season.
