Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Mar 1, 2023.

?

Engage!

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    41.8%
  2. 9

    29.7%
  3. 8

    13.3%
  4. 7

    8.4%
  5. 6

    1.5%
  6. 5

    2.3%
  7. 4

    1.1%
  8. 3

    0.4%
  9. 2

    0.4%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    1.1%
  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Worf: the Sarek of Klingon parents. :lol:
     
  2. Doctorossi

    Doctorossi Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, very character-accurate.
     
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  3. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Worf's a changed man, but not changed enough to have reckoned with being the galaxy's worst father.
     
  4. ToddCam

    ToddCam Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Worf would be starting a new type of epithet as far as I'm aware with that. If that were a thing, would you have to list all your kids, or just the firstborn?
     
  5. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    When the scene first started, I thought they were calling back to Rios mentioning the prior owner of the ship had left the computer filled with Klingon opera, before I recognized the piece.
     
  6. Ralph O Ward III

    Ralph O Ward III Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Which sparked the short lived worf/troi relationship
     
  7. Doctorossi

    Doctorossi Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Is every episode of this season going to start with a 20th century needle-drop?
     
  8. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At some point during this episode I realized that I was simply watching a continuation of TNG. Decades later and with better SFX, but it is really no better or worse than some of the better episodes of the old show. And I'm actually okay with that. It was entertaining, and I was watching Star Trek. So, with that in mind...

    1. Worf is back and in as fine a form as ever. Of all the character evolutions we have seen so far, his rings truest with me. He has grown and changed, but at the same time he is still the old Worf we know and love. Still my favorite character from TNG, and who knew a Klingon could totally master that 'Silver Fox' look?

    2. Starfleet security training is sorely lacking. A guard is knocked out by one sucker punch, taken by surprise by a dangerous prisoner who only hours before had escaped from the ship's brig. . Pa-thetic.

    3. I agree with the 'character assassination' remarks regarding Crusher. I don't care how many years have passed or what not, I'm just not sold on her having Picard's son and then NEVER telling him about it. I'm also sorely disappointed that Jack is apparently JL's son after all. And then to make it even better, Bev throws Jack under the bus with that remark about him not wanting to meet JL! Way to go, Mum!

    4. The disagreements between Riker and Picard towards the end of the ep seem out of character. Plus, who the hell is in charge? Picard almost seems like a bystander here- an observer. As an admiral, he should either be exercising direct command or removing himself and letting Riker do so. What's killing them is that with the bickering and wishy-washiness between the two of them, nobody is in charge. And as someone else mentioned, why didn't Riker immediately order Seven back to duty, and to the bridge?

    5. Changelings, eh? Well, that plus Worf himself gives everyone that solid DS-9 link they've been wanting. Kewl.

    6. The nebula is obviously some sort of intelligent life form, and it apparently has made preliminary contact with Jack Crusher.

    7. The Shrike could save Titan from its gravity-well fall by using its dimensional weapon. We'll see if that's how it plays out, or the so-far incompetent crew of Titan finds a way to save themselves. Not much hope there, given the conduct of Shaw and his 'what is this shit you're throwing at me now' attitude. I'm sure Starfleet Academy imbued that glorious irritation with the unknown in him. :brickwall:

    8. Overall, despite some nitpicks above, this episode was good stuff. Way better than anything we saw in S2. Enjoyed the small Troi snippet- I hope we get more of her, and soon. Also looking forward to seeing Geordie here before too long.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  9. Pubert

    Pubert Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah it's getting a little tiring. It's all because of the dumb Abrams 20th century rock music for Kelvin Kirk.
     
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    Confession Time: Before DS9 ended, I wanted a DS9 movie after it did. Then the way the series ended, I came around to the thinking that DS9 didn't need a movie. But I still would've loved for the Dominion to have been in a TNG Movie. Then, the further we got from DS9, the less sense it made to me, and they'd have to introduce the Dominion to a Movie Audience who hadn't seen DS9. Plus Nemesis bombed, so it made the whole thing moot. If Picard can start with a flashback, I can start with a flashback!

    Fast Forward to Today: But now we're in the Streaming Era. Picard is a streaming show and if you have access to PIC, you have access to DS9. So now I'll say, it's great to see the Dominion again! We very briefly saw a Changeling in the fourth season of Discovery, but that was a "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thing. Here, in Picard, it's part of the storyline and now the series finally feels like a full-on sequel, not just to TNG but to the entire TNG/DS9/VOY Era. This is still a "TNG Movie" but DS9 and VOY are now both very well represented.

    The Characters: PIC Worf feels like an older version of DS9 Worf. He feels like an older version of the character I watched during the second half of the '90s. Unlike the actual TNG Movies, which ignored all of Worf's development and didn't really do his character justice. (Though he fared better in First Contact than he did the other TNG Movies).

    Beverly has more character here than in all four TNG Movies combined. Her story being similar to Carol Marcus' is undeniable, "You had your world and I had mine, and I wanted him in mine," but they made it make sense on her terms. It was painful to watch the scenes where Picard and Beverly are arguing about Picard never even having a chance to meet his son. Beverly goes on to say she gave Jack the choice to meet Picard. I can see what she's saying about wanting the choice to be Jack's. But, at the same time, I think she should've had Jack meet his father after he retired if she felt that way. Maybe it was all too painful by that point and she felt like she dug herself in too deep. Either way, this was masterful. I agree with Picard, but they did a great job with Beverly's point of view.

    Riker. Now I know why they had it so he and Picard were so Buddy Cop Duo during the first two episodes. It was to set up the contrast to what's happening now, starting here. Riker has distinct views about fatherhood while Picard is still in a state-of-shock and processing everything, Then Shaw is injured and Riker has to take command. He knows he and Picard dragged the Titan out here, it's their fault for getting them into this. Riker's taking ownership of the situation now. Whereas Picard, the more desperate he sounds, is beginning to sound like Future Picard in "All Good Things", Irumodic Syndrome or no Irumodic Syndrome. Just replace "We have to go back!" with "We have to stay and fight!", which is also something Picard said in First Contact when his judgment was going south. Then Riker tells Picard to remove himself from the bridge.

    The Screenplay Structure: Episodes 1-3 were Act I. Starting with Episode 4, we'll now be in Act II. In the first act, you show what's "normal". At the end of Act I, what's normal has been disrupted. In Act II, you're in the heart of the script's conflict and things have been turned on their head. Picard knows he's a father now and has to deal with that, he's not on the same page as Riker, Riker's in command of the Titan again, Beverly's back in the picture again, the Changelings are back in the picture again, and -- thanks to Vadic -- they're in some weird section of space.

    This post is longer and more review-like than my others because now I finally have more to go on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  11. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The key to this in the future is not digital de-aging, but deep fake tech. Some of that is uncannily good, to the point where coupled with AI controlling the voice, inflection, and expression, etc., you aren't going to be able to trust digital news media AT ALL in the near-term future.
     
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  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This isn't TNG.
    WELL, the voice is the more important part. Maybe...
    Thank you.
    Shaw wouldn't care. That record is the reckless behavior that is currently getting his crew killed.
    Sorry, sir, we don't believe in windows. Starfleet said they were useless since we have sensors.
     
  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Inception was 2010. I think that the Spielberg War of the Worlds remake with Tom Cruise (2005) was the first to use the "brown note" noise. Was used by the "Martian" war machines to communicate with each other.

    I agree it's being WAY overused in this context. I think it was used about 3 or 4 times in the second episode alone - basically any time the Shrike was shown, moved or did anything menacing.
     
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  14. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That we saw on screen. Nothing says they didn’t do anything off screen.

    You can still see him in wide shots.
    It was an amazing line, very Star Trek.

    I guess we know why they didn’t give the Titan a bridge window even though the Stargazer had one.
     
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty sure Terry’s inspiration here was The Motion Picture, not any of those movies. The V’Ger music had the same sounds.
     
  16. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    TMP never had the big-ass honk, though. They used over-modulated electric guitars - I know the sound you're talking about - it's definitely got a different tonality to it. TMP was more electric-sounding. This thing is an Alphorn on bathsalts.
     
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  17. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I’m pretty sure It’s the same instrument, the blaster beam. The creator mentioned it was going to be used in Season 3.
     
  18. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes that's it...

     
  19. SiorX

    SiorX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Can somebody help me out with timelines? I'm so bad at keeping them straight in my head.

    Jack must have been born some time between 2379 and 82?

    Picard left the Enterprise in '81 and was managing the Romulan evacuation until '85 when he (accidentally) resigned. So up until Jack was about 4-6 years old.

    And then he's in the doldrums in France from '85 - '99 (until Jack's 18-20).

    Have I got that right?
     
  20. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    That lines up with what I have.
     
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