Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x05 - "Stardust City Rag"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by NCC-73515, Feb 14, 2020.


Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Seven? I give this a TEN!

  2. 9

  3. 8

  4. 7

  5. 6

  6. 5

  7. 4

  8. 3

  9. 2

  10. 1 - (out) of 10.

  1. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

    Feb 4, 2002
    The Old Mixer, Somewhere in Connecticut
  2. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 20, 2013
    Erie, PA, USA
    Thank God they got rid of that ridiculous collar Chekov's outfit had during most of TSFS. Could you imagine if he had to wear it throughout TVH too?
  3. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

    Oct 13, 2019
    Unimatrix 259
    This is TrekBBS. That's what we do! :lol:
    Jedi_Master, Gonzo, SJGardner and 2 others like this.
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    Journeying onwards
    "Saddle up. Lock and load."
    Danja and SolarisOne like this.
  5. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Danja and Gov Kodos like this.
  6. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 25, 2001
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    "The Borg Queen doesn't approve of tattletales!"

    Pindar likes this.
  7. MrPointy

    MrPointy Captain Captain

    Nov 2, 2006
    I think the biggest issue I have with the episode is that the tone of the episode is a really poorly thought out rollercoaster. You have these really dark scenes bookending a DS9-era comedy caper. And that leads to this other issue.

    The episode explains a character's motivation twice because of how they structured the episode. They put the Icheb flashback in the beginning of the episode to explain Seven's motivation for revenge, and then have Seven explain her motivation for revenge again (for the characters in-universe, but also to the viewers) during the standoff scene with Bejazzle. They just showed and told the audience the same thing at two different points of the episode. And this is a series that's already really slowly paced as it is.

    I would have used the Icheb flashback as a visual flashback during the standoff to punctuate Seven's motivation for revenge, and then have the beginning flashback be something else, like maybe Icheb's ambush. That way, the episode starts with a mystery, hints at something dark when Seven says that Bazinga butchers ex-Borg for parts and then pays it off. And now the tonal structure of the acts makes the shift in tones more consistent and palatable.
    eschaton and ThreeEdgedSword like this.
  8. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Commodore Commodore

    May 5, 2004
    The tonal shifts were something I liked about the episode. Why should we only have those shifts between episodes rather than within one?
  9. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Feb 22, 2020
    Sheer Fucking Hubris
    I definitely agree that PIC continues to have structural and pacing issues.
  10. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    RJDiogenes of Boston
    I got levels. :rommie: One of my pet peeves is people who think low standards are better than high standards. I saw that a lot growing up, and not just from family.

    Granted that I haven't actually watched an episode in a long time, but I don't remember anyone bragging about how great they are.
    Danja likes this.
  11. Jadeb

    Jadeb Commodore Commodore

    Jul 11, 2017
    I didn’t know what to make of the outrageous Franch accent scene. It didn’t strike me as funny at all, just out of place.
    Trekker4747 likes this.
  12. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

    Feb 4, 2002
    The Old Mixer, Somewhere in Connecticut
    Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I actually usually enjoyed it when they'd criticize modern human issues via aliens of the week, but they were kind of looking down their noses when they did so, and it clearly bothered some. There is something less flattering about having an entire crew doing that than having one wry observer among improved but still flawed humans. Spock and the TOS human crew had a little more of a give and take dynamic. TNG was more "we're right, they're all wrong".

    And some examples in TNG are worse than others. I give the oft-cited "The Neutral Zone" a pass because of the writers' strike situation. They were literally unable to fix what was wrong with it, they just had to film it as they had it.
  13. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 2, 2017
    So, I realized something.

    Bejazzle butchers ex-Borg for parts right? And Maddox was in some sense working with her, correct?

    Could it have been more than funding? Could he have owed her because he bought Borg parts from her? Borg parts he needed to finish off the twins?
    MrPointy, SolarisOne, Gilora and 7 others like this.
  14. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

    May 25, 2011
    Hurricane Alley
    That's my read. I think that Maddox' success hinged in part on his adaptation of Borg tech (perhaps Jurati's "essential" contribution?) and THAT is what is driving the Vat Slash or whatever to murderous rage, they recognize what the Wonder Twins represent, a Borg who doesn't know they are a Borg.
    Danja and SJGardner like this.
  15. Gonzo

    Gonzo Guest

    That was talked about way back near the start of the chapter thread after a few had watched it, he has been working with her for a while and she lent him money to setup his lab, the chances of him making use of some of the parts are very high indeed unless he had found an even more effective way (the Borg method is pretty crude really).

    We don't yet know exactly how he went about creating Dahj and Sonj, or the full list of who helped him.

    What exactly are they, no one seems to know for sure besides Maddox and its odd that Jurati didn't at least try to find out what he knew first such as the location of the nest, surely that would have been what the Commodore asked of her after she had shown her whatever it is.

    Is Jurati playing her own game after all and her actions are due to feeling betrayed by Maddox.

    Why would there be talk of a nest if Maddox was the creator and its just Dahj and Soji.

    It ties in with the suspicion that while Dahj and Soji are synthetic they are not necessarily the true enemy that the Zhat Vash are terrified of, yet they suspect that Maddox must have worked with them to create Dahj and Soji.

    It makes me wonder if we can really trust anything we have seen.
  16. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 2, 2017
    And there was that scene in episode 3 with Ramdha. Soji's badge clearly flashed green, which we were told in an earlier episode means she should run. She inadvertently turned something on in Ramdha - and maybe the other disordered XBs as well.
    SolarisOne, Pindar and Jedi_Master like this.
  17. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 2, 2017
    It seems clear to me now that Maddox's role in this whole thing with the twins was pretty minor. Soji might be the key that unlocks the door, but she's not the same thing as what's behind the door at all.
    SolarisOne and Gonzo like this.
  18. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

    May 25, 2011
    Hurricane Alley
    Very good point! She might be able to assimilate others without conscious thought.... wooo that would be wild! I wonder if she will trigger Picard?
  19. Gonzo

    Gonzo Guest

    I don't think Maddox or the Commodore are the big bad but they both have pieces of the puzzle.

    It must be something much older or the Zhat Vash would not have existed for as long as they have, I have been leaning towards the Borg but I don't think even they are old enough but whatever it is could have created them, same for Lore and Data neither of them is old enough.

    The badge could just signify the detection of Borg signals or low level recognition, an unintentional attempt to connect via bluetooth for instance which triggered a memory, thing is even with that why should the ex drone be afraid of Soji on a personal or collective level, never mind be so specific as to call her the Destroyer.

    There is still the question that we were asked in the first episode, why was Dahj sent to Picard of all people, why not just return to the nest or even self destruct to protect the others as the danger was so great, Maddox said they were created to uncover this big conspiracy so they are tools as much as anything else.
  20. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 2, 2017
    It seems clear from what Maddox said that sending Dahj to Picard was basically failsafe programming if she ended up being "activated." Her real mission was to be enrolled in the Daystrom Institute for some reason or another - apparently to help Maddox figure out whatever the grand conspiracy was.

    No one other than Narek and Narissa have mentioned this "nest" of others. I don't think it has anything to do with Maddox whatsoever, considering if there were more they should have found out about them when they trashed Maddox's lab.