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Star trek, My thoughts past present & future.

Kilroy

Cadet
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My first Sci fi love was the original BSG series. That was also my first real exposure to Sci fi as a child, and I remember being heart broken when it was canceled. I Suppose my second Sci fi love was star trek.

Star trek changed quite a bit from its original series to the next generation series. In TOS, the Klingons were the "enemy". And to a certain vague extent they were in my opinion sort of modeled after our enemies of the time, the soviet union. Back in those days, the Klingons weren’t the "Quasi Space Samurai warriors" that they became in TNG. They were the guys who showed up, and tried to kick sand in the federations face.

Now, when the very first Star trek movie came out, and all the way up to the Genesis movie, we saw a completely new Villain. These villains weren’t the Klingons of old, and they weren’t the TNG klingons either. They were all together "Alien" To me. They came off as vicious intergalactic predators, A race of Heartless and pitiless killer Aliens, bent on Galactic domination and war. The Half crazed and Psychotically Brutal Klingon captain that was after the Genesis device was to me, the PERFECT Klingon. Brutal, sadistic, and still fairly alien.

Now, here is where most of you are going to disagree, and maybe even dislike me for saying it, But the Klingons of Undiscovered Country are when in my opinion, the Beginning of a rapid downward spiral for star trek.

Poetic, Mis understood, Honorable Romantic Samurai space warriors of a sort. Future Friends of the federation even. It was in my personal opinion, the lamest thing that Gene Roddenberry could have done. After that, came TNG. which I thought was absolutely the most Horrible thing that could have afflicted the star trek universe and story line. (a fruity Shakespearian Frenchmen as a replacement for the ruf and tuff, take no crap from no one kirk of old? PLEASE!) From this disaster, sprang Cheesy TNG knock off after cheesy knock off, until Star trek had become so over used, and so “Different” from the original vision that people just seemed to start loosing interest in it. Soon people were muttering, "Trek is dead". Which was somewhat depressing to me, but certainly something I saw coming. After all, in my opinion, star trek started the long slide into Terrible, with the airing of the first TNG episode. Maybe Gene Roddenberry’s long slow slide into insanity played a Part. But I Just Hated it.

Now, I dont mean to belittle and Insult the TNG fans out there, and I know many people enjoyed the series and its spin offs. But I just couldn’t Get into the new, "Hippie galactic love why cant we all just get along" version.

Ever since TNG started, I Have yearned for the Original movies trek. I have always wished that they would just start over, with a more up to date and much less cheesy version of the original series. I wanted Kirk and His crew back, Fighting off Hoards of the Nasty and evil alien klingons that I had grown attached to.

And Just today. I heard for the first time, that a New Movie, Based on the original series Era, with a new Kirk and crew was coming out.

I was one of the Skeptical crowd, who did not like the Idea of a New Female Starbuck for the new rendition of Battle star galactica. But I was willing to View the new telling of it with an open mind. And I was not at all disappointed. And somewhere, deep down inside, I feel that the new Telling of an Old Star trek story, wont disappoint me either.

I Cant wait to see how this one turns out. and I think it might Possibly re-kindle some of that "old timy" 1980s star trek popularity, that I feel has been missing for so darn long.
 
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Welcome to the board, Kilroy. I removed the stray code from your post. For future reference, we don't have it set up so you can post in different colors and fonts here.

Also, I'm not really sure your post belongs here. Since it ultimately pertains to the new movie, I'll shuffle this along to the Star Trek XI forum.
 
Now, here is where most of you are going to disagree, and maybe even dislike me for saying it, But the Klingons of Undiscovered Country are when in my opinion, the Beginning of a rapid downward spiral for star trek.

Actually, based on your criteria of what made the Klingon race less exciting, the "real world" time-line of the downward spiral began with the introduction of Worf in TNG (1987) , then the movie ST V:TFF (1989) then ST VI:TUC (1991) and so on...
 
If you think that DS9 is just a knock-off of TNG, then I really doubt you have watched much DS9 - especially past the first season and in particular the last three seasons of that show. If you HAD watched the last few seasons of DS9, you would know that they REDEFINED 'ruf & tuff' (as you call it) in Star Trek.

Interstellar wars tend to do that.

As for the Klingons, I think the latter Treks took a one-dimensional, practically stick-figure 'bad guy' race and gave them some depth and texture. They became complex beings instead of cartoon character bad guys.

But whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
If you think that DS9 is just a knock-off of TNG, then I really doubt you have watched much DS9 - especially past the first season and in particular the last three seasons of that show. If you HAD watched the last few seasons of DS9, you would know that they REDEFINED 'ruf & tuff' (as you call it) in Star Trek.

Interstellar wars tend to do that.

As for the Klingons, I think the latter Treks took a one-dimensional, practically stick-figure 'bad guy' race and gave them some depth and texture. They became complex beings instead of cartoon character bad guys.

But whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm gonna agree and say that DS9, (My fav Trek series) was almost certainly as 'ruf & tuf' ,if not, more-so than TOS. Sisko may have been a bit more refined around the edges than Kirk, but definitely a kickass Captain.
I like that we were able to see more into Klingon culture and see what their family structures were like etc. in some of the new Series like TNG. We wouldn't have gotten to see that without the introduction of at least a few Federation friendly Klingon types.

-Rabittooth
 
It is easy to hate someone you know little about. The difficult part is when you realize your enemy is a person. Later incarnations, which began with Worf, showed that "the bad guys" were really people, just different from us. That, in a nutshell, is what understanding is all about. "The Undiscovered Country" addressed the issue very poignantly and very well. Kirk learned that he had hated Klingons for so long that, he realized, it would be very difficult to learn to live with them in peace. :vulcan: + :klingon: =:bolian:
 
It's like Jon Stewart was saying on The Daily Show last night, about the woman who asked Obama the flag pin question, but couched it in "I'm not questioning your patriotism." Or as they say in New York, "with all respect." :lol:
 
I dunno. I thought the Klingons on the original show generally were wonderfully played and written -- alien not because of a spine on their foreheads and funky boots but because they were so joyfully villainous. The neutering of Klingons, though, started with David Gerrold's buffoonish conception of Koloth as a comic foil, a concept favored by Nimoy and Bennett in "Star Trek III," a film not sure if it wanted to be badly comic or overly dramatic. While there are still some traces of this thinking in the later films, at least the Klingons were given some balls again (if they actually have them).

I will say the bald guys, schoolmarm and Joe Camel stand-in that followed Captain Kirk never really inspired much for me, which isn't to say they were bad characters so much as just plain dull. "Character" was later defined as how much trivia about a person could be worked into the ever-more-expository dialogue, and if Captain Kirk occasionally gave speeches, the later characters frequently outright pontificated, sometimes in Hawkeye Pierce mode. It is the difference between listening to a lecture and being lectured to, I suppose. If Abrams is able to find the balance, he might reinvigorate the franchise after all; I think he'd be wise to use "Star Trek" as the pattern.
 
^ Yep. Whether you like the show or not...there is no gettin' round the fact that it's different from TNG. ;)
 
BERMAN IS THE FUTURE

The ONLY way Trek can live is to embrace the BERMAN. Only he may guide trek through these troubled times
 
Re: BERMAN IS THE FUTURE

I didn't really care for the Klingons of the TOS era. They seemed more like 1 dimensional villains to me, but they had the benefit of being written in entertaining episodes which makes this easy to overlook. I also have a hard time getting pass how they just look like humans that need to bathe. I far prefer the more alien, ridged Klingons we got in the TOS movies and modern Trek series with their unique, language and culture. I think a lot of dislike for the modern day Klingons came to over saturation and some overuse of the same terms over and over such as "honor". :p

I wish we could have seen more of the other types of Klingons such as those who didn't belong to the warrior caste, which would have done a better job of making them well rounded. Klingon episodes, like Ferengi episodes are an acquired taste I think. ;) Despite the flaws though, over all I really like Klingons, but I hope future Trek projects don't overuse them because I think a lot of people simply got sick of them after awhile with so much focus on them in TNG and especially DS9.
 
DS9 was the pinnacle of all that is right with Star Trek. They can return to the 23rd C, but only if they promise to re-invigorate Trek with the DS9 sensibility.

Which basically is: Star Trek fans don't need la-de-dah PC crap spoon-fed to us. We can handle a bit more ambiguity and reality than that.
 
Re: BERMAN IS THE FUTURE

I didn't really care for the Klingons of the TOS era. They seemed more like 1 dimensional villains to me, but they had the benefit of being written in entertaining episodes which makes this easy to overlook. I also have a hard time getting pass how they just look like humans that need to bathe. I far prefer the more alien, ridged Klingons we got in the TOS movies and modern Trek series with their unique, language and culture. I think a lot of dislike for the modern day Klingons came to over saturation and some overuse of the same terms over and over such as "honor". :p

I wish we could have seen more of the other types of Klingons such as those who didn't belong to the warrior caste, which would have done a better job of making them well rounded. Klingon episodes, like Ferengi episodes are an acquired taste I think. ;) Despite the flaws though, over all I really like Klingons, but I hope future Trek projects don't overuse them because I think a lot of people simply got sick of them after awhile with so much focus on them in TNG and especially DS9.
Kor was a "one dimensional villain? Kang was "one dimensional?"

Okay, Koloth was there for comic relief... and most of the rest of the Klingons were utterly forgettable (I can't even remember the name of the guy in "Friday's Child!"). But Kang and Kor... they DEFINED "Klingon" in a way that was far more layered and subtle than most of what we got in the TNG/DS9 era. Honestly, the TNG-era Klingons became a joke after a while.
 
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