Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Oct 15, 2017.


Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Absolutely fantastic!

  2. 9

  3. 8

  4. 7

  5. 6

  6. 5

  7. 4

  8. 3

  9. 2

  10. 1 - I sling mudd at it!

  1. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    May 22, 2001
    Noname Given
    Doubtful as right now (in the ST: D year of 2257) Kirk is graduated from S FA - and Kirk specifically mentions that "Garth's exploits were still required reading while he (Kirk) was at the Academy".

    Also, nothing in canon states who the Federation fought at The Battle of Axanar. It was a FASA Star Trek Roleplaying sourcebook that stated it <-- And that's non-canon.
  2. starmike

    starmike Captain Captain

    Jul 23, 2016
    No. Kirk said that what Garth did was required reading at the Academy. Kirk's already on the Republic.
  3. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 25, 2001
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    Yeah, he said his very first mission to Axanar was as a cadet on a peace assignment, and that would place the battle and Garth's victory at sometime prior to the 2250-54 timeframe. Whom he fought we don't know but the battle was heavily implied to have kept the Federation together and politically intact, so it may have had less to do with Klingons and more with a threat powerful enough to split the Federation itself apart.
  4. Santa Kang

    Santa Kang An honorable elf Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    North Pole, Q'oNos
    Garth was the most recent addition to Elba III's population. So I assume his breakdown was recent. Garth's greatest exploits must have happened before Kirk's time at the Academy, so prior to 2252. Garth is probably out there fighting Klingons during Discovery.
  5. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 6, 2001
    Sac, Ca
    Really loved this episode, and thought it was probably one of the best written Trek stories in years. This "spore drive" technology may still seem just a bit silly, but the moral dilemma involving the creature was a really good one, and the conflict between Burnham and Saru was compelling as hell to watch too.

    Rainn Wilson was a surprisingly good Mudd as well, and I'm hoping we see more of him. I'm also really hoping now that Lorca will be sticking around for longer than just this first season, as he's such an interesting character to watch and it's nice to have a captain with a bit of an edge to him again.

    Hell, even Stamets with his snarky attitude is finally starting to grow on me. After all the shit he gave Burnham before, it was cool to see him take their side almost immediately and agree that what they were doing to the creature was wrong.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  6. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 17, 2011
    Mind you, he could be a famous Admiral who fights said Battle here.


  7. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 15, 2015
    Holy shit, that was great! I've liked all these episodes, but they weren't home runs. This was a home run.

    The "abduction from a shuttle traveling to a meeting" is a favorite Star Trek trope, and this was a great version of it. All these characters are great, but this is the week I fully fell for Mary Chieffo/L'Rell. I was impressed by how well Rainn Wilson fit the Disco world, while also connecting back to the TOS Mudd. There were multiple scenes I rewatched as I went along because I liked them so much.

    Culber & Stamets are instantly one of the best Trek couples ever, and I desperately hope the writers realize the cannot do "possessed Stamets kills Culber."

    And just that last scene! That's a tricky turn of tone! The way it flips from that adorable romance into that terrifying last shot is so well calibrated. Nicely done.

    And the fact that they paid off the tardigrade set-up so well gives me further confidence that all the other serialized set-ups will have similarly satisfying resolutions.

    My quibbles are so minor. Basically 4 or 5 lines were clunky, and a few times I thought "if this is the most important thing in the entire war, why is the team only a lead scientist, a mutineer, and a cadet?" (though, obviously, there's about a billion earlier Trek episodes where one could highlight a similar plot issue)

    But yeah, GREAT episode. Exceptional work, Discovery team! CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT WEEK!
  8. Lakenheath 72

    Lakenheath 72 Commodore Commodore

    Sep 28, 2014
    Furthermore, Kirk was a "new fledged cadet" when he first visited Axanar on a peace mission. This would be circa 2252 or 2253. (Whom Gods Destroy)

    I checked the transcript for this episode. Garth of Izar is described as a "new inmate". He could not have been at the prison for long.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  9. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 15, 2015
    My other thought was: "geez, Q was really slacking in 'All Good Things'! His big consciousness-expanding test was to see if humans can conceive of backwards motion through time, in a universe that includes nipple clamping a giant tardigrade to travel via the invisible space fungus web?"
    Apparition B5 and lawman like this.
  10. Jesse1066

    Jesse1066 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 11, 2014
    Washington State
    "Look, the truth is, you're nobody's first choice for this job. But we have 3,000 ships to staff and we need captains. We're giving you one last chance."
    CRM-114 and 137th Gebirg like this.
  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    May 22, 2001
    Noname Given
    He could have been transferred from another facility to Elba II.
    Lt. LaForge likes this.
  12. Smoked Salmon

    Smoked Salmon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 12, 2012
    Strongest script of the series.


    The episode was less Burnham heavy and more of an ensemble piece. That is very welcoming. Plus I found the characters more likeable, developed and heroic in this episode. I was worried that the show would continue to be just be Burnham focused, so this was a major plus.

    I don't think Lorca is going to be the villain in this. He is a man who is wrestling with the morals of war. I think his ambiguity will lead us to him being, if anything, a tragic figure.

    The many dialogue and screen references to past Treks, including the nods to TOS and Enterprise characters.

    Perhaps, most importantly, I liked the fact that the episode went full blown Star Trek with a nice series of moral questions and thinking points. People on here poo poo the idea of cerebral Trek. But this is what I mean when I talk of cerebral Trek. Not necessarily highly intelligent, but just something that gives the audience reason to consider morality and situations that aren't entirely straightforward. I felt that was largely missing from JJ Trek so it is nice to finally have that sort of storytelling back.

    I liked that the Klingon ship interior was far more traditional than the "cathedral" ship. The Klingon guard uniforms were also a distinct improvement on the Elizabethan style ones.

    The ending of the episode with the Tardigrade has an almost "Tin Man" quality that was welcome.

    I like that the relationship between Stamets and the doctor is not in your face in an "oooh look we've got a gay couple" sense. It felt natural and that is much appreciated.


    The double F Bomb. Got no problem with profanity per se, but it adds nothing and I found the scene in question borderline cringeworthy and very puerile. "Oooh look at us, we're swearing on Star Trek".

    L'Rell's make up looked bad in this episode. Overall I have not been impressed at all with the quality of the make up on the show. Even the Vulcans don't look completely right and actors with full rubber heads sound like the are talking through said rubber and that it is hampering their performances. I'd give anything for them to bring back Mike Westmore.

    Canon annoyances. They go to all the trouble of little touches like Klingon sound effects from TNG and Voyage Home and then you seen the ship exterior with zero design lineage from previous shows.....and a D7? Really? I thought they had people on staff to stop such obvious mistakes....and I think the lack of design lineage when it comes to ships suggests that those designers working on the Klingon ships aren't fans and don't know the lineage.

    Mudd. Why? His inclusion felt pointless so I hope future episodes will lend some context to his appearance here that goes beyond "I'm a gonna git ya Lorca!".

    I like Tyler, but why are both Isaacs and Latif required to be American in this show? As an Englishman like them I find it a bit insulting. Are only Americans allowed in space just prior to TOS?

    The end scene is the start of the mirror universe story obviously. But when I saw it I felt, I dunno, like it was cheesy. I have a feeling that the mirror universe is going to be something better left in the past. It was always a bit silly and I'm not sure it is appropriate for modern day Trek. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.


    For me the overriding element has to be scripts and I think the scripts have improved steadily each week and the contrast from the first two pew pew pew turd episodes to what now feels like Trek has this fan very happy. I can overlook the dodgy Klingons and apparent goofs if the important stuff that makes Trek what it is are still there and I feel there is more and more of that each week, so I'm definitely going to continue watching and it's very nice to have something that feels more and more like Trek each week back on our screens.
  13. Lakenheath 72

    Lakenheath 72 Commodore Commodore

    Sep 28, 2014
    If he was a transfer from another facility, would not that facility have known about the cellular metamorphosis and informed Elba II about it? The governor of Elba II stated he did not know about this process until Garth impersonated a guard.
  14. Quinton O'Connor

    Quinton O'Connor Commodore Commodore

    Apr 3, 2010
    Durham, NC
    Good episode. I'll have thoughts tomorrow; I'll port them here from my little social media group once I've written them.

    Loved everything ship-side this episode; not sold on Mudd yet. I was never a big fan though. I can tell Rainn Wilson's giving it his all, but eh.
    guyute03 likes this.
  15. cwellslovell

    cwellslovell Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Oct 12, 2017
    Hmmm... ok. Lots to process here.

    1- Lt. Tyler is Voq undercover with augment virus. They showed him reading Starfleet personel files last episode when he was marooned so he must've just boned up on his factoids and got all human DNA'd up and now is ready to Donnie Brasco the Discovery.

    2- Stamet's Twin Peaks moment in the mirror was nice albeit heavy handed. Bryan Fuller might not be day to day on this show but touches like that leave his stylistic fingerprints. It reminded me of a Hanibal episode ending.

    3- Lorca's past command decision didn't surprise me. Nor does Starfleet giving him Discovery in the wake. I think that tidbit being mentioned in the same episode we see Saru's list of the 23rd century's greatest Starfleet captains is not a coincedence. The Chris Pikes of Starfleet don't get the Black Ops missions that risk it all then bury it in the classified vault. They give those to individuals who have demonstrated a bit more moral flexibility. Lorca and Ro Laren would have gotten along famously and Lorca probably would have been Maquis had he lived a hundred years later. The irony of the great captains vs. great morals debate is the Matt Decker, number 3 on that list of Saru's, ends up killing his entire crew in about 15 years in attempt to save them from a miserable fate, Christopher Pike (number 5 on the list) ends up inspiring a mutiny onboard the Enterprise, and its likely Archer made that list because some of his log entries during the Xindi War were lost due to Delfic anamolies.

    4- Mudd was cool in the limited way he was used. Rainn Wilson is a real sport but he could've laid it on thicker I think. It wasn't nearly as eccentric a performance as I was expecting.

    5- For all the criticism I've read that "This can't be the prime timeline because they don't make any direct references to canonical people and even if it is it still isn't Star Trek because these characters aren't morally perfect!" Well this episode sort of punched some holes in those arguments. This is Prime Trek. Period. Time to move on.

    That being said, there are still many valid points of criticism... I hope, should we get a season 2, that the war is over... because I need the furious pace of the show to slow a bit, the characters to spend a bit more time together in non-conflict oriented ways, and to see them do some discovering aboard the Discovery.
  16. Smoked Salmon

    Smoked Salmon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 12, 2012
    He's the new Arne Darvin? Does that mean Lorca's tribble will save the day and end the way?!! ;)
    137th Gebirg likes this.
  17. cultcross

    cultcross Taking the Plunge Moderator

    Jul 27, 2001
    *scrubbing sounds*
    Sorry, I'll get to my review in a second, just need to scrub my screen clean after the show let off the fanwank that was the list of T3H AW3ZUM CEPTAINS followed immediately by Harry Mudd name dropping Stella in his opening line and then dropping the Boldy Go line.
    *Scrubbing continues*
    Borg, Campe, Santa Kang and 5 others like this.
  18. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 10, 2002
    Los Angeles
    In the after trek show the producers said that originally the tardigrade was going to be a crew member but the idea was nixed due to budgetary reasons. It obviously would have been expensive, and kind of silly having that thing in starfleet uniform and sitting on the bridge.

    Also in the clip from next episode they showed Burnham and Tilly wearing "Disco" T-shirts. I am sure there will be some merchandising of that in the future.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  19. Smoked Salmon

    Smoked Salmon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 12, 2012
    Love to see this, but not sure how it would fit with today's short attention span audience.
  20. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 17, 2011
    Jason Isaacs said something akin to the effect of the fact "The character was an American Southerner in the script so I put on a Southern accent and got the job once people realized I was interested in it." There was even a neat little bit on After Trek where he got annoyed a female fan loved Patrick Stewart because of his sexy English accent. So it seems they conceived the characters first then cast Brits in the role who have been professionals dubbing their accents--probably unneccessarilly.