Star Trek Continues, Episode 4 - "The White Iris"

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by BoredShipCapt'n, May 19, 2015.

  1. Karzak

    Karzak Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    You're certainly welcome to your opinion (which, in my opinion, is rather basic), but your premise is flawed. The Abrams' films have done just fine and aren't anywhere near as bad as the detractors would have you believe.

    I do think your first question is worth examining (i.e. is it possible to die from a broken heart?) but the rest is just more of the same stuff that gets discussed (at length) in here.
     
  2. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Location:
    New York, New York
    We really don't know why The White Iris was pulled from You Tube.

    The use of screen shots is not likely to be the reason. There are literally thousands of recuts that remain up (even though some are taken down). Recuts: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/214.html

    There is a history of removing stories that take pictures and adapt them to a new story by editing, photoshopping, and adding new dialog, e.g., http://enterprises5.yolasite.com/ was removed.

    They are MOST likely to object to the use of music from the Star Trek Franchise but which CBS does not own. Although New Voyages/Phase II does this also, Cawley seems to have a special relationship with CBS, and it would, in my opinion, be unwise for anyone else to assume because Cawley is permitted to do it, it's OK for other people.

    The worst part is that we may never know why this happened. In March, 2014, CBS had You Tube take down Curt Danhauser's TAS tribute, "And Let The Heavens Fall." He contacted both You Tube and CBS repeatedly. He never got an answer and the film was never restored. I have speculated that the problem might have been that it was the only fan-made production ever made that could easily be confused with a real TAS episode. It looked and sounded like TAS and, in addition, was the same length as a TAS episode. Some speculated at the time that somebody mistook it for a TAS episode. In fact, it was taken down as part of a You Tube sweep which took down many illegal postings of Pro Trek episodes.

    I hope we find out why The White Iris was removed. Knowing would inform all fan filmmakers, and help keep their productions from earning the ire of CBS legal.
     
  3. DCR

    DCR Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Location:
    Wentworth Hall, Tellus of Sol
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    STC is good, even very good, but I wouldn't call it uniquely good, so I have to think that it belongs with the other fan films in this category.

    Since "Pilgrim of Eternity" was released, we've seen major TOS-era releases from PII/NV, Exeter, and Farragut, as well as the three subsequent releases from STC. It also looks like we can expect both "The Crossing," and "The Holiest Thing" before the year is out. I for one, am looking forward to both those endeavors just as much as I did to "The White Iris," and as I am to the upcoming Ep.5 of STC.

    We also have Renegades, Horizon, and Axanar to look forward to as well, and a huge number of other productions.

    Sure, there are definitely production tiers among fan films, and STC is in the highest tier, but it's a huge, and I think unwarranted, stretch to say it's alone in that tier.

    And this is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoyed "The White Iris."
     
  4. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    Yes, we really need to lump STC and the other non-bad ones in with the bad ones. That way we don't need a mechanism to assess if the fan production is "good enough" to be lumped in with the *actual* show. And would it be only TOS-era shows that we would lump into the "real show" category? What if a fan series is "really good" that's set in the TNG/DS9/Voy era. Which "actual show" category should be used since they are all contemporaneous?

    We'll just call STC a fan series; that way I and others won't have to try and convince you why NV/P2 or Exeter or Farragut should be promoted to the "real show" category. It also saves us from having to decide where to categorize the series if and when the quality slips and they become just as crappy as any more ordinary fan film--or if people decide that Vic's Kirk had just too many exaggerated Shatner pauses.
     
  5. The Transformed Man

    The Transformed Man Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Yeah, that was my thought too. If the Miramanee lodge sequences was the issue then hundreds of fan tribute videos using footage from the TV shows and movies would be subject to the same rules.

    This just sounds like one of those oddball automated Youtube copyright decisions. I had a video I produced eons ago for my church which used catalog music I had the rights for, but because that same bit of music was used in an episode of Spongebob Squarepants my video was taken down for a copyright violation. It took a full year and a half to get the issue resolved after a sending countless emails for an answer.
     
  6. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Location:
    New York, New York
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    I have been following Star Trek Fan Films for six years, which by the standards of this board, makes me a newbie.

    No, we are not 'obtuse.' We are experienced.

    As it is, CBS has had The White Iris taken down from You Tube. I was raked across the coals here for stating inarticulately that STC comes across like a professional production. I was trying to say the way they promote themselves and the quality of their work was professional. I was not trying to suggest they were making money off it. However, fear raced across the internet because an old lady who makes an index to help people find these things (with zero filmmaking ability and a 55-year-old turtle for a companion) used the words professional with regards to STC, and judging from the takedown of The White Irs, rightly so.

    The worst thing we could do to ANY fan production is suggest that it in any way competitive with a professional production. That invites CBS to take it down.

    So if you love STC, protect it. Call it a fan film and keep it in this forum.
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Funny how these things work out. I look at STC's episodes and even with their missteps I find it works for me quite well and feels like a good extension of TOS.

    I look at "official" Trek in the form of JJtrek and all I can think is :wtf:

    Indeed I can look at a number of fan productions that impress me enough as more authentic than what is "officially" being cranked out.
     
  8. Karzak

    Karzak Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Yes, we know.
     
  9. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Youtube copyright enforcement is indiscriminate, inconsistent, and provides about as much due-process as talking to a robot from THX-1138. Unfortunately, you can't look at other videos to figure out what is and isn't allowed because Youtube is rife with flagrant copyright violations which stand uncontested.

    I would really love to see more internet traffic shift to Vimeo. Unfortunately, that's not where people hang out, and so hobbyists need to cross their fingers everytime they upload something.
     
  10. RedShirtGuy797

    RedShirtGuy797 Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    I completely understand your point and I didn't consider your position previously. But I do want to add that quality work needs to be acknowledged and simply not seen as "fan dome." In my experiences people don't get serious credit if it is considered "fan fiction" a "cover," or whatever other synonyms people use to downplay writing if it is not considered their own. I want people to understand that cbs should not be the only ones to dictate this nor should we simply accept that JJ Abrams is the only person allowed to produce Star Trek. I am pretty sure once star wars gets rolling he is going to sell out. I think there needs to be a way to get star trek away from cbs, because as long as a major network is in charge their will never be another series on tv unless it is in the form of the internet like STC and others. Now it appears cbs doesn't like even that. Why be like that? If cbs doesn't really care about star trek then why block STC on YouTube? Is it just about the money? Because their is no profit being made.
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    ^^^"get star trek away from cbs"? Yeah, good luck with that. Mickey Mouse is still copyrighted and trademarked up the wazoo, and is much older than Star Trek.
     
  12. Treadwell

    Treadwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    FWIW I think this discussion is off-topic in this thread.
     
  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    We don't really know why the episode was yanked. It might not even have anything to do with CBS.

    In our society one isn't considered "professional" until one is actually paid for their work. By that definition any fan made work cannot be considered professional--no matter how polished it may be--simply because they cannot profit from the work in any monetary way.

    That isn't to say they cannot profit from the work in terms of experience and appreciation and even recognition which could lead to other non-related work from which they could profit monetarily.

    Speaking as a fan I would prefer they keep a somewhat low profile so as not to piss off those who in fact own the legal rights to the property. And in holding the rights to the property CBS does get to dictate what can and cannot be done with it.

    Now there have been some fans expressing the idea of wishing CBS would recognize and even fund STC so it could be broadcast on television. It's a cute dream, but if CBS actually did that (and it will never happen) it's very likely they would make/demand changes wherein STC could lose much of what we find appealing in it.

    The simple fact is while we can really enjoy STC as is it's something that would never fly on contemporary television. And CBS would also more likely just make their own series rather than contract it out to a bunch of fans.
     
  14. Karzak

    Karzak Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Re: Star Trek Continues: White Iris

    That much was obvious.

    I can agree with this.

    Exactly what do you consider "credit?" Seems like the people at STC are getting plenty of it.

    Yes, they should. They own STAR TREK. These fan films only exist there but for the grace of CBS.

    Currently, he is not. Justin Lin will be directing STAR TREK BEYOND.

    Supposition.

    :lol: Good luck with that.

    Here's a wild guess: It's because they own STAR TREK and we don't.
     
  15. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    I think that the world would be a better place if trademark, copyright, and for that matter patent, law had a "use it or lose it" clause. No sitting on properties or cool inventions. No more "pay to slay".
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    You know what happens when you have "use it or lose it" clauses? You get bad movies and TV shows made just to maintain the rights. This is why that awful 1990s Fantastic Four film was made.

    While I do think Copyright extensions have become ridiculous (nothing should be Copyrighted for a fucking century), I don't think "use it or lose it" clauses would actually help.
     
  17. James Kerwin

    James Kerwin Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hey all, please stand by for a statement from STC and our executive producer.

    In the meantime, I HIGHLY recommend ignoring gossip, rumors, and fabrications about what happened. Believe me, the speculators are batting .000 on this one. :)

    So just hang on and chill. Drink a beer. Watch the ep on Vimeo for now if you want to see it. It's all good.
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    "I'm here to announce an upcoming announcement."
     
  19. The Transformed Man

    The Transformed Man Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    On a related, yet simultaneously unrelated note, the film rights for Bond are up following the release of SPECTRE. Let the bidding war commence!
     
  20. James Kerwin

    James Kerwin Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    "I am pleased to report that, contrary to speculation, STC episode IV was not deliberately pulled by anyone at CBS. Several members of our production have regular contact with CBS Licensing, and I spoke personally with a V.P. of CBS legal over the past couple days. She's assured us that the takedown was not intentional, and YouTube has been instructed to reinstate the episode immediately. We have enormous respect and gratitude to CBS for their help in resolving this matter.

    Live long and prosper!"

    Vic Mignogna
    Exec Producer, Star Trek Continues