Star Trek a popularity contest?

[Chuckling]

I love seeing the new fan productions and people exercising their own creativity.

But there always seems to be somebody who thinks if they get enough signatures on a petition or can force CBS into seeing what they've got, the studio will automatically recognise their efforts and reward them with multi-million dollar contracts.

Case in point:

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/television/star-trek-tv-series-planned-takes-place-voyager.html

Obviously this isn't going to happen because if CBS had wanted it, Mr. Foster would already have been handed the contract. He's been promoting it on-line for a long time, as have many other fan productions, all worthy possibilities of one form or another.

The fan write in that is widely promoted as having saved *Star Trek* in the past actually wasn't that successful and subsequent efforts haven't been successful at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

"...The threat of cancellation loomed during the show's second season.[11] The show's fan base, led by Bjo Trimble, conducted an unprecedented letter-writing campaign, petitioning NBC to keep the show on the air.[12][13] NBC renewed the show, but moved it from primetime to the "Friday night death slot", and substantially reduced its budget.[14] Roddenberry reduced his direct involvement in Star Trek before the start of the season to protest the changed timeslot, and was replaced by Fred Freiberger. The series was canceled in its third season, despite the protests of a renewed letter-writing campaign...."


I'm just wondering why people keep pushing the idea that *Star Trek* is some kind of democracy and they can push or bully CBS into doing anything?

It's not. CBS owns *Star Trek*, it's their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. Trying to force the issue is very unlikely to achieve anything.

Is it?

Chuckling

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Great av!

How to get Trek back on TV is a real conundrum. Put yourself in CBS's shoes. Your strategy of cop shows + mass market sitcoms has made you the most successful broadcast network, compared with competitors that are in various stages of disarray. You also have CW for the young female demo and Showtime for the snob factor. Where does Star Trek belong in that mix? Nowhere. So why are you spending ten seconds thinking about it? That's not going to help your career.

 

[horatio83]

I'm just wondering why people keep pushing the idea that *Star Trek* is some kind of democracy and they can push or bully CBS into doing anything?

It's not. CBS owns *Star Trek*, it's their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. Trying to force the issue is very unlikely to achieve anything.

Is it?

Chuckling

Because the letter campaign did bring TOS back for a third season and because today the marketing guys might be listening if you make enough noise.

 

[Chuckling]

I'm just wondering why people keep pushing the idea that *Star Trek* is some kind of democracy and they can push or bully CBS into doing anything?

It's not. CBS owns *Star Trek*, it's their baby and they can do whatever they want with it. Trying to force the issue is very unlikely to achieve anything.

Is it?

Chuckling

Because the letter campaign did bring TOS back for a third season and because today the marketing guys might be listening if you make enough noise.

What makes you think it's the marketing department that makes those decisions? You're giving them more credit for power than they've got.

Maybe CBS is looking at creating something completely new that nobody has done before.

Something involving all the fans (instead of just the few) perhaps?

Could be. Stranger things have happened!

(And thanks Vorta! I love that av too. Can't bring myself to change it! )

Chuckling

 

[horatio83]

The more money there is in the game the more powerful the marketing guys become. Just take a look at STXI, you can clearly see how it is intentionally designed to please the fans with the abundance of fanwank in it as well as the folks who don't know or care about Trek or sci-fi in general.
I totally disagree with you and see nothing wrong with publically campaigning. That's the word, it's not bullying or pushing but campaigning, making your voice heard, free speech and all that.

 

[Chuckling]

The more money there is in the game the more powerful the marketing guys become. Just take a look at STXI, you can clearly see how it is intentionally designed to please the fans with the abundance of fanwank in it as well as the folks who don't know or care about Trek or sci-fi in general.
I totally disagree with you and see nothing wrong with publically campaigning. That's the word, it's not bullying or pushing but campaigning, making your voice heard, free speech and all that.

That's because you're not on the CBS side trying to deal with all of this!

They even closed down their *Star Trek* office in an attempt to stem the flow of mountains of letters coming in; each demanding everything from every single person's perspective. In the end, they didn't have the personnel employed able to sift through the daily mountains of letters and e-mails and submissions etc., So all the letters and e-mails cancelled each other out and now they either get returned or allocated to the trash! There's simply no other way of dealing with them at the moment.

Obviously this is not a desirable situation from either the studio's POV or the fans.

So! Does anybody have some better ideas about how CBS can more easily communicate with the fans and the fans with them?

Chuckling

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I'm just wondering why people keep pushing the idea that *Star Trek* is some kind of democracy and they can push or bully CBS into doing anything?

Star Trek is a democracy in the sense that it lives or dies - like every other commercial product - on its ability to convince enough people to spend their money on it. The reason these various fan factions can't "bully CBS into doing anything" is that they simply don't have the numbers. They just don't represent a significantly large portion of the people who actually spend their money on Trek, much less a significant portion of the viewing public at large.

 

[Chuckling]

I'm just wondering why people keep pushing the idea that *Star Trek* is some kind of democracy and they can push or bully CBS into doing anything?

Star Trek is a democracy in the sense that it lives or dies - like every other commercial product - on its ability to convince enough people to spend their money on it. The reason these various fan factions can't "bully CBS into doing anything" is that they simply don't have the numbers. They just don't represent a significantly large portion of the people who actually spend their money on Trek, much less a significant portion of the viewing public at large.

Well said and also very true.

But they can make life pretty unpleasant for those trying to get everything together at the top! i.e. hacking of websites and the such.

My suggestion would be for people to wait and see what CBS has in mind before they start taking up further calls to action.

CBS is already committed to a course of action and have been following it through. Whether people approve of it or not is a whole other kettle of fish!

They may actually find CBS has been keeping their eye on the various websites and what has been said over all these years since a TV series was last on our screens. Then having considered everything, have come up with what they hope will be an appropriate response which most people can be happy with.

You never know what's going on behind the scenes.

One thing we can all agree on is that CBS and the franchise do not like losing money or not making it where and when it should be available. Logic decrees they are obviously already working on something. i.e. see *Star Trek On-line* as an example.

Chuckling

 

[Jonas Grumby]

But they can make life pretty unpleasant for those trying to get everything together at the top! i.e. hacking of websites and the such.

Yeah, I can understand that.

I mean, you probably have to take it all with a grain of salt, anyway. It's probably only, say, five to ten percent of the fans--the most fervent ones--who would ever write a letter (or certainly hack a website) anyway. And that's exactly what they are: five to ten percent of the fans. Hypothetically, you could get 10,000 letters, all asking for the same change, make the change, and then find out you've now got ten million former viewers who now think your show sucks!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

So! Does anybody have some better ideas about how CBS can more easily communicate with the fans and the fans with them?

Here's an indirect form of communication: the next time a space opera series starts up (and assuming that you're a Nielsens family...or, heck even a DVR user...any method that ensures your viewing is counted), make sure you watch it so that the ratings will convince CBS that space opera is the Hot New Trend.

Okay, CBS may not be the first party that is convinced, and one show does not a trend make. But let's say SyFy and other cable stations start to realize there's money in space opera. A few more spring up. Sooner or later, CBS will realize they're sitting on a valuable property that they could leverage as part of a trend.

In other words, there's a long road between where we are now, and a situation in which CBS is going to take notice of Star Trek. The fact that space opera is dead all across broadcast and cable (except for The Clone Wars) is enough in and of itself for CBS to assume Star Trek has little value as a TV property.

And of course CBS is working on stuff all the time - for CBS, the CW and Showtime. Some of it is even sci fi or at least fantasy. But none of it is space opera as far as I've been able to tell. If CBS isn't interested in the whole genre, why should they be interested in Star Trek?

 

[ngc7293]

Here is an idea, since CBS is doing so well with certain shows, make a Trek show that fits in that vein. A Cop Drama could be an Investigative ship that flies about a specific sector. You go back to TOS roots and away from technobabble. The ship is not as important as what happens at the destination.
Another one could be for CW. There was an episode from Voyager called Down Below. You could have a drama about the young crew and the bridge crew is almost never seen. Maybe there is a love interest with the XO or the like, but the crew never sees the bridge. It could be like 90210 and an older officer shows the younger crew member "around the ship" ;P
Someone else can think of Showtime. I only get basic cable and the last time I saw Show time was just movies.
But I hope you got the idea. Once you go for their wallets, maybe they will be more willing to do something more Trek-like.

 

[Alienesse]

There was an episode from Voyager called Down Below.

If you're referring to "Lower Decks", that's a TNG episode. Voyager had a somewhat similar story about young members of the crew, which was called "Good Shepherd".

You could have a drama about the young crew and the bridge crew is almost never seen. Maybe there is a love interest with the XO or the like, but the crew never sees the bridge. It could be like 90210 and an older officer shows the younger crew member "around the ship"

What you're describing here is NOT Star Trek.

 

[bbailey861]

You could have a drama about the young crew and the bridge crew is almost never seen. Maybe there is a love interest with the XO or the like, but the crew never sees the bridge. It could be like 90210 and an older officer shows the younger crew member "around the ship"

Is it April Fools' Day?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Here is an idea, since CBS is doing so well with certain shows, make a Trek show that fits in that vein.

Why would CBS add sci fi to the cop show template when non-sci-fi cop shows are doing so well?

Sci fi + cop show is a very popular form of sci fi on TV, just not on CBS. Just look at SyFy, they've fallen in love with that format. But it's not the spaceship type of sci fi, because, well, you can do that format cheaper if you stick to Earth.

And doing just a cop show format would not be good for Star Trek. Kirk & the gang spent some time being space cops, sure, and I've long been an advocate of bringing the cop element back into the franchise. But it was just part of the overall episode mix. It would be too limiting to focus only on policing and leave out the war, politics and diplomacy.

The CW might do a space opera one of these days, but I sure hope they don't slap the Star Trek label on it, because it's going to be all about teen angst and romances. Blech.

Someone else can think of Showtime.

Showtime is by far the best place for Star Trek of the three. It's easy to sketch the outlines - basically do for space opera what Game of Thrones is doing for high fantasy and The Walking Dead is doing for zombie stories. Take a fantastical setting and take it seriously with intelligent, grownup drama.

 

[Chuckling]

Here is an idea, since CBS is doing so well with certain shows, make a Trek show that fits in that vein.

Why would CBS add sci fi to the cop show template when non-sci-fi cop shows are doing so well?

Sci fi + cop show is a very popular form of sci fi on TV, just not on CBS. Just look at SyFy, they've fallen in love with that format. But it's not the spaceship type of sci fi, because, well, you can do that format cheaper if you stick to Earth.

And doing just a cop show format would not be good for Star Trek. Kirk & the gang spent some time being space cops, sure, and I've long been an advocate of bringing the cop element back into the franchise. But it was just part of the overall episode mix. It would be too limiting to focus only on policing and leave out the war, politics and diplomacy.

The CW might do a space opera one of these days, but I sure hope they don't slap the Star Trek label on it, because it's going to be all about teen angst and romances. Blech.

Someone else can think of Showtime.

Showtime is by far the best place for Star Trek of the three. It's easy to sketch the outlines - basically do for space opera what Game of Thrones is doing for high fantasy and The Walking Dead is doing for zombie stories. Take a fantastical setting and take it seriously with intelligent, grownup drama.

Here's the thing. CBS are the owners of *Star Trek*. Whether there is any current TV series is irrelevant, they still own the property and it is still functioning in other forms. i.e. startrek.com, the stores, Star Trek Online etc.,

If you are a retail store owner and you have stock sitting on the shelf for too long, it starts costing you money to keep it there so you cut the price and throw it out.

Think of *Star Trek* along those lines. CBS has it working. It's out there and it's continuing to make them money but I'm sure they are wanting it to make them more money for the "space" on their virtual "shelf" it is inhabiting.

In other words, they are working on it. We see it every day, one way or another. The question is whether what they are doing with it is making them the financial gain it could. Are their current plans and use of the franchise making the most of what they've got in the current world economic circumstances?

And what they could do to increase that market share.

Chuckling

 

[horatio83]

Why should one think about Trek along these lines unless one owns Viacom stocks? Of course art is always a product but I'll be damned if I read Macbeth and wonder about how much pounds and shillings the Bard made with it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

If Shakespeare was still writing, how much money he made would be very relevant, since it would determine whether or not any of his new plays were produced.

The reason Star Trek is not being made for TV is financial. The reason Star Trek is being made for movies is also financial. And also maybe due to JJ Abrams' personal interest in the subject matter. But if his first movie had been a big fat stinkin' flop, he wouldn't be making another.

When discussing the future of Star Trek, the only relevant topics are: financial, and whether someone in Hollywood with clout (Seth McFarlane? Bryan Fuller?) is personally interested in it.

 

[Chuckling]

Why should one think about Trek along these lines unless one owns Viacom stocks? Of course art is always a product but I'll be damned if I read Macbeth and wonder about how much pounds and shillings the Bard made with it.

Because one needs the finances and backers in order to do things like mount new series.

Even Shakespeare needed to eat and put a roof over his and his family's heads!


Chuckling

 

[Temis the Vorta]

This Shakespeare discussion reminds me of that funny Twilight Zone episode where he did come back from the dead and tries to get a new play produced, starring Burt Reynolds doing a hilarious Brando impression. I'm not sure things would work out for ole Will the way he assumes...

If you are a retail store owner and you have stock sitting on the shelf for too long, it starts costing you money to keep it there so you cut the price and throw it out.

Star Trek isn't costing CBS any money just sitting there on the "shelf" and Paramount is doing a nice job of keeping the brand name alive. But I'm a bit surprised CBS hasn't thought about riding Paramount's coattails. Maybe if the next movie is a big success? But that still doesn't solve the problem of where CBS would air a space opera series of any sort.

The relevant Shakespeare analogy is, what if he came back from the dead sometime in the future when live theater no longer exists in any form, and there was no place for the kind of plays he makes?

 

[Chuckling]

I think part of the brilliance of the Bard was his ability to adapt and cater to the needs of the age and his audience.

I suspect he'd be making webcasts!

Chuckling