Star Trek 3: Spock Ages Just Right

[Beam Brain]

On the hinges of my first post regarding plot holes in the TOS movies, this one is huge.

Talk about coincident. Spock is regenerated as a child and ages with the planet. There are a few problems with this:
1) A planet controls aging. Seriously? I am unaware of any physics principles that would ever support that. Hence the term Science Fiction.
2) No one else ages. If Spock is aging 60+ years in "a matter of hours" why didn't Proto-Matter David or Saavik turn 90?

Any feedback should be interesting.....

 

[David cgc]

Spock was exposed to the Genesis Effect while the planet was still newly formed. The others didn't arrive on the planet until weeks later. Since they found Spock as a child, it seems it took more time for Genesis to begin affecting him than it did for him to age once he had been reborn.

The entire concept of the Genesis Effect is ridiculous. If you're willing to accept that there's a pattern of energy and radiation that can cause a billion years of evolution to happen hours or days, and is so adaptable that, while designed to work on an existing planet, it can just knock one together from nebular dust in the area if one isn't provided, but the idea that Spock's body would be reset and similarly accelerated is a bridge too far, I don't know what to tell you.

Who says they got Spock off the planet at the same age he was when he died? We never saw the results of a medical examination. He didn't visibly age that much between 2272 and 2360-something, so it's hard to estimate from his appearance alone (and his aging came in irregular spurts, and seemed to accelerate, so it also doesn't tell us much that he'd only looked like Leonard Nimoy for a few minutes, at most). It could explain why he died of old age at a mere 160 years old, if he left Genesis at a biological 80 or 100 years old when he'd arrived at 55.

 

[Beam Brain]

"The entire concept of the Genesis Effect is ridiculous." Yep! That much is for certain. It really all is. Again, there is no science to support a person's aging to be tagged to a planet. So you are right, the entire thing is silly. They needed to have a way to make him age enough so that he would look the same. My critiques are more meant for dialogue rather than questioning whether or not it is valid or not. The rules here state I have to do 14 posts before I can take advantage of more benefits. Thanks for engaging David.

 

[Vger23]

A lot of shit went sideways on this mission…I guess Spock being roughly the same age he was when he died was a bit of luck they deserved.

In fairness, with the Vulcan lifespan, they could have been off 10-20 years in either direction and it would have been roughly unnoticeable.

In terms of others not aging…Spock’s cells were regenerated by Genesis…Marcus and Saavik were not.

 

[Lord Garth]

Spock "only" made it to 162, instead of the usual 200-year lifespan for Vulcans. (2230-2387 Prime + 2258-2263 Kelvin) So either his Human half knocked down his lifespan or he was physically older when he was rescued from Genesis and the difference wasn't noticeable at the time.

 

[NCC-73515]

He should've had a really long beard when he left XD

 

[Therin of Andor]

He should've had a really long beard when he left XD

Her name was Saavik.

So either his Human half knocked down his lifespan or he was physically older when he was rescued from Genesis and the difference wasn't noticeable at the time.

Of course, Young Spock was played at various ages:
Carl Steven ... Spock - age 9
Vadia Potenza ... Spock - age 13
Stephen Manley ... Spock - age 17
Joe W. Davis ... Spock - age 25.

Remember that there was no publicity about Nimoy returning to act in ST III. Only as director. Even on the call sheets, his character was "Nacluv" (anagram of "Vulcan"), played by "Frank Force" (ie, "the frankest force in the galaxy"). Frank Force also received screen credit for Director Nimoy's performance of the Voice of the Excelsior Computer.

Nimoy was very clever. If he ended up hating his ST III experience, he could have just whispered to Joe W. Davis, "Guess what, the job's yours!" and let Maltz beam up Shatner and Davis at the end. Suddenly, Trek has a new Spock.

 

[Timo]

Spock "only" made it to 162, instead of the usual 200-year lifespan for Vulcans. (2230-2387 Prime + 2258-2263 Kelvin) So either his Human half knocked down his lifespan or he was physically older when he was rescued from Genesis and the difference wasn't noticeable at the time.

He had also been artificially aged with what amounted to decades at least twice ("Deadly Years", "Lorelei Signal"). Just having his wrinkles smoothed doesn't mean he recovered any of the years he lost there. Then again, McCoy went through the same rigamarole, and reachced 137 at least, whilst O'Brien later says that 140s is good going for a human...

Him aging on the Genesis Planet is no weirder than him aging in the TOS and TAS episodes. Or then it is completely different: even though Genesis rejuvenated him, the greater context of this may have been that he'd slowly return to "normal" as the effect wore off. Just like the planet would slowly return to the "normal" state where there was no planet! No such returning in TOS, where the heroes just combated the effect with a cure that helped reel back the visible symptoms; in TAS, the transporter presumably "restored normalcy", though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Because it wouldn't be much of a movie if Kirk beams onto the Bird of Prey holding a rotting corpse.

 

[Kor]

DAVID: This planet is ageing in surges.
SAAVIK: And Spock with it. It seems they're joined together.
DAVID: They are.
(as transcribed at chakoteya.net)

And it's mentioned a couple more times. For me, that was exactly as much explanation that we in the audience need. More detailed exposition would have just bogged down the story.

Kor

 

[Bad Robot]

Agreed. The Search for Spock is full of holes, but it's a strong example of storytelling minimalism. I don't think there's a single place you could "fix" the film (establish exactly what Kirk expected to find on Genesis, etc) without making it worse.

 

[Khan 2.0]

It could explain why he died of old age at a mere 160 years old, if he left Genesis at a biological 80 or 100 years old when he'd arrived at 55.

Funny to think ST3 might be tied to Trek III even more so than the Ent being destroyed, stranded on a planet/using the enemies ship. and Tarzan and Ghostbusters out the same summer

 

[Vger23]

The biggest plot issue is why Kirk needed to go to Genesis to begin with. They had absolutely no idea, until Saavik tells Kirk while they are in orbit, that Spock is even alive. Sarek was only concerned about getting Spock's katra back. If you really think about it, the premise of the entire film doesn't hold up because there's no solid, clear reason for the crew to hijack the Enterprise and go barreling into the Mutara Sector. As far as Kirk knew, Spock's tube burned up in the atmosphere and/or disintegrated on impact. And, even if it hadn't, what use was Spock's rotting corpse going to be with regard to getting his katra to Vulcan?

At the very least, they should have found a way to have McCoy released (Sarek and the Vulcan government would have easily confirmed his condition and innocence) and chartered a ship to take them directly to Vulcan. That's it, because the trip to Genesis was otherwise completely unnecessary. But...of course, that would have been a dull movie.

And I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES TSFS...but the movie doesn't hold up on even the most fundamental level if you tend to think about it too much.

 

[Mytran]

The biggest plot issue is why Kirk needed to go to Genesis to begin with. They had absolutely no idea, until Saavik tells Kirk while they are in orbit, that Spock is even alive. Sarek was only concerned about getting Spock's katra back. If you really think about it, the premise of the entire film doesn't hold up because there's no solid, clear reason for the crew to hijack the Enterprise and go barreling into the Mutara Sector. As far as Kirk knew, Spock's tube burned up in the atmosphere and/or disintegrated on impact. And, even if it hadn't, what use was Spock's rotting corpse going to be with regard to getting his katra to Vulcan?

At the very least, they should have found a way to have McCoy released (Sarek and the Vulcan government would have easily confirmed his condition and innocence) and chartered a ship to take them directly to Vulcan. That's it, because the trip to Genesis was otherwise completely unnecessary. But...of course, that would have been a dull movie.

And I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES TSFS...but the movie doesn't hold up on even the most fundamental level if you tend to think about it too much.

The novelisation does provide an explanation for why it's so important that both the Katra and the body must be brought to Vulcan.
It's a very creative piece of writing!

 

[Maurice]

The film was rearranged in editing. IIRC it originally opened with the Grissom detecting the life form and then Kirk finds out about it on the way back to Earth, which is why he goes to Genesis with Bones in tow. It still doesn't make much sense, but at least the sequence of events was more logical.

 

[dupersuper]

Spock "only" made it to 162, instead of the usual 200-year lifespan for Vulcans. (2230-2387 Prime + 2258-2263 Kelvin) So either his Human half knocked down his lifespan or he was physically older when he was rescued from Genesis and the difference wasn't noticeable at the time.

Or he just died relatively young, as sometimes happens.

 

[Timo]

It's more an issue of him aging relatively young: he starts looking way older than his dad very early on, and then keeps those looks till they day he dies. Although that, too, sometimes happens.

The "why Genesis?" issue isn't all that troubling despite the messed-up editing. Sarek barges in on Kirk with no intent of making Kirk go get the corpse. Kirk then figures out there was the katra transfer. And from that point on, both would be motivated to use their considerable resources to work something out. It would be trivial for either Kirk or Sarek to get the Grissom data, using a combination of position, connections and guile. And Sarek would know of the value of the corpse in the process of ridding McCoy of the katra - even though this value is the piece of the puzzle that the audience never learns.

When the corpse turns out to be alive, Sarek apparently switches rituals; it wouldn't have been logical to wait till the last moment to ask T'Lar for the fal tor pan peration if it were the one planned all along...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Khan 2.0]

Or he just died relatively young, as sometimes happens.

regarding Spocks Primes early death in Beyond isnt there something now in Discovery that says universe hopping travellers die early ?

 

[dupersuper]

regarding Spocks Primes early death in Beyond isnt there something now in Discovery that says universe hopping travellers die early ?

If the Kelvin universe and prime universe were "getting farther away" (whatever that means in this context), like the PU and MU have by the 32nd century.

 

[Beam Brain]

The biggest plot issue is why Kirk needed to go to Genesis to begin with. They had absolutely no idea, until Saavik tells Kirk while they are in orbit, that Spock is even alive. Sarek was only concerned about getting Spock's katra back. If you really think about it, the premise of the entire film doesn't hold up because there's no solid, clear reason for the crew to hijack the Enterprise and go barreling into the Mutara Sector. As far as Kirk knew, Spock's tube burned up in the atmosphere and/or disintegrated on impact. And, even if it hadn't, what use was Spock's rotting corpse going to be with regard to getting his katra to Vulcan?

At the very least, they should have found a way to have McCoy released (Sarek and the Vulcan government would have easily confirmed his condition and innocence) and chartered a ship to take them directly to Vulcan. That's it, because the trip to Genesis was otherwise completely unnecessary. But...of course, that would have been a dull movie.

And I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES TSFS...but the movie doesn't hold up on even the most fundamental level if you tend to think about it too much.

Well said!