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Star Fleet/Federation Culpability

Photon

Commodore
Commodore
Who would you blame for SF/Feds not being ready to take a new villain in the Dominion?

If the Jem'Hadar had stabilized the WH and then poured through, SF wouldn't have had a chance.
Do you blame: SF Intel for not going in behind Sisko and Dax and looking for potential trouble?

Politicians who saw the potential Dominion threat and basically acted like scared politicians afraid to piss off the Romulans/Carddies/or someone else

SF Brass for not having any clue about the Dominion's threat and burying projects like the Defiant?

Basically Sisko and SF engineers saved the AQ's collective asses
 
^ They should've mined the entrance to the wormhole waaayyyy earlier, so... whoever was in charge of that...
 
It depends, in my eyes. Starfleet had no idea that the Dominion existed until season 2. I think personally the Federation should have banned all Federation traffic into the Gamma Quadrant, once the Dominion was discovered.
 
True. And they realllllly should've made a careful search of it before setting up colonies there!!

Banning traffic wouldn't keep the Dominion out of the AQ tho, so when they proved they did not want peace, minefield should've been tossed up.
 
True. And they realllllly should've made a careful search of it before setting up colonies there!!

Banning traffic wouldn't keep the Dominion out of the AQ tho, so when they proved they did not want peace, minefield should've been tossed up.
Marie is right, these ppl really didn't want peace. So was it a lie that told the Feds. Quit playing in our back yard and you want get war?
I think the Dominion was hell-bent on conquering the AQ through subversion or out and out in your face invasion.

The Founders' xenophobia made the Romulans look like friendly choirboys. Simply, they couldn't be dealt w/by playing nice.
Shut down the WH and no war, just hearing the Bajorans bitch (so what would be new?)
 
^ That's the beauty of the mines! :)
Wormhole is unscathed, so the Bajorans aren't compromised either...

Rom did so well with those mines...
 
Yeah, I think the Federation should've done MUCH more intelligence work before they started sending people in force into the territory beyond the wormhole. If you have another quadrant potentially as complex as the Alpha Quadrant, it behooves them not to just go charging in, but to do their research.

God only knows what would've happened if that wormhole opened near Borg territory in the Delta Quadrant, and one false move would've attracted a Borg fleet...
 
I tend to think it was the attitude S.F had.

Starfleet officers think of themselves as explorers and even disliked the title of soldier.

Just a few days ago, the TNG episode Peak Performance aired.

In it Captain Picard had misgivings because Starfleet asked him to participate in a war games exercise.

In other words, just practice a little!

When you have misgivings at even the idea of participating in a simulated war game, yet you're charged with defending your freedom and territory....

These are the people that are supposed to protect the Federation and keep it from being invaded. They have the phasers and the torpedoes.

But they refuse to see themselves as even part-time soldiers?
 
It is ridiculous to blame the Federation/Starfleet for not being prepare for the threat of the Dominion. You can only prepare for threats you know about and then hope that if something else crops up that what you have done already can either deal with it or hold off long enough for you to adapt to the changing situation. If Earth was conquered by aliens tomorrow I'm not going to blame the government for not building big honking space guns just on the off chance alien invaders might turn up.

Starfleet did what it should have done - it sent ships to explore and try and find out what the situation was in the Gamma Quadrant. Sitting back and doing nothing and letting the threats come to you is simply asking for disaster. As for getting more intel before sending ships into the GQ, how do you do that? You have to send ships through to go look around. You would think that the Federation should have an equal chance to meet like minded governments as it would hostile ones like the Dominion, though the writers do seem to favour aliens as "brutal savages" or in some way immoral as compared to the shining light that is the humanity led Federation.

As for mining the wormhole earlier, the major problem with that is any one wandering through it would be destroyed. Take the Skreea for example, if they wandered through and into a minefield the Federation could have effectively committed genocide against them (assuming that the travelling group were the entire of the Skreea population, which it might not have been). Also it might be seen as an act of bad faith, that the Federation will prevent anyone from coming through but will send others to the GQ. By leaving the wormhole free to traverse it could give out a more peaceful and friendly message, which to me seems very Federation-like.

As for the Dominion, I don't really blame them for seeing that region of the AQ as a threat. 3 of the 4 major powers are very aggressive and militaristic. The Dominion was probably right to be concerned about this new short cut that appeared relatively close to their territory.
 
As for mining the wormhole earlier, the major problem with that is any one wandering through it would be destroyed. Take the Skreea for example, if they wandered through and into a minefield the Federation could have effectively committed genocide against them (assuming that the travelling group were the entire of the Skreea population, which it might not have been). Also it might be seen as an act of bad faith, that the Federation will prevent anyone from coming through but will send others to the GQ. By leaving the wormhole free to traverse it could give out a more peaceful and friendly message, which to me seems very Federation-like.

At the latest, immediately after the dominion tried to blow up the bajoran sun, killing BILLIONS, the wormhole should have been mined.

As for the Dominion, I don't really blame them for seeing that region of the AQ as a threat. 3 of the 4 major powers are very aggressive and militaristic. The Dominion was probably right to be concerned about this new short cut that appeared relatively close to their territory.
And yet, the dominion attacked the peaceful AQ power.
For the founders, any power strong enough to oppose them was hostile.
 
The idea to mine the wormhole was a great idea - but why did it have to take someone like Rom to come up with it and so last minute!? That means Starfleet Command or Intelligence weren't doing their jobs. But considering Sisko had a person under his charge with the ability to come up with them why didn't HE press the matter a little bit more.

Though it may be the case that Founders were already working within Starfleet directing = sabotaging = Starfleet policy in this regard.
 
This topic again! :D One of our evergreens...

Starfleet was both careless and arrogant for not taking Dominion warnings to stay out of the GQ seriously. Sure, the Bajorans weren't technically under Starfleet control, but Starfleet could have "strongly advised" them not to start any colonies until the situation could be thoroughly checked out.

When the Dominion decided to announce their displeasure at the interlopers "forcefully," Starfleet should have evacuated the GQ and declared travel thru the wormhole off limits until and unless diplomatic relations and some accommodation could be reached with the Doms.

Instead, Starfleet just kept whacking the hornet's nest, which prompted the Romulans to try to blow up the wormhole in self defense (knowing where Starfleet blundering would lead - I'm sure they've seen this movie before) and when that failed, they moved on to Plan B, the pre-emptive strike in collaboration with Cardassians, which the Founders of course took as an act of war. After that, open conflict was inevitable.

Starfleet must have been composed of oblivious fools for not mining the wormhole at that point - if some aliens had tried to blow up Earth, how would Starfleet react? Just sit on their hands? Blithely assume that the aggressive aliens have gotten it out of their system and will never try again? The level of Starfleet incompetence is astounding!

Since the Feds, Rommies and Cardies were all involved in this idiotic sequence of events, it's no wonder the Dominion saw them as part of the same power structure - the whole AQ was dangerously insane and unstable. And then when they found out about the fourth power, the notoriously militaristic Klingons, it's a wonder that they didn't just decide to blow up the entire quadrant and have done with it.

If that's how Starfleet handles first contact with aliens, no wonder they're perpetually at war with somebody. And then they complain that they're really "explorers," poor babies! Their idea of exploration is what forces them to be military. :rommie:

^ They should've mined the entrance to the wormhole waaayyyy earlier, so... whoever was in charge of that...
Or just blow it up. The Rommies had the right idea. And if the Prophets really were gods, of course they'd be fine. You can't blow up a god. :p

Marie is right, these ppl really didn't want peace.
Then why did the Feds sign a peace treaty with the Dominion? Surely they can't be expected to honor that treaty if they are drooling warmongers bent on imperial conquest!

Considering that the Doms didn't launch an aggressive war until after their homeworld had been targetted for obliteration, it's impossible to say that they were acting imperialistically. They were fully justified in launching a war in self-defense at that point, and since the Feds later signed a peace treaty with the Doms, the Feds must agree that the Doms' motives were other than simple imperial conquest.

These are the people that are supposed to protect the Federation and keep it from being invaded. They have the phasers and the torpedoes.

But they refuse to see themselves as even part-time soldiers?
Oh that's just old granny Picard. But he must be especially dense not to see the linkage between exploration and warfare. One implies the other, even if you're being a lot more careful than is Starfleet's habit.

Starfleet did what it should have done - it sent ships to explore and try and find out what the situation was in the Gamma Quadrant. Sitting back and doing nothing and letting the threats come to you is simply asking for disaster.
Sure, you send ships. You don't let civilians found colonies, or if they do, you make sure they know they're on their own. Then, when you get thwacked, you retreat fast, put up a defensive shield (mines at the very least) and assess the situation. You don't stomp around like Dax did and declare your unconditional right to explore (trespass) wherever you feel like, not unless you really like getting into wars with your neighbors.
As for mining the wormhole earlier, the major problem with that is any one wandering through it would be destroyed.
Put up a warning buoy with a Universal Translator on the GQ side. If the folks there are like Starfleet and blithely ignore warnings, then they deserve to get blown up.
Also it might be seen as an act of bad faith, that the Federation will prevent anyone from coming through but will send others to the GQ.
The travel prohibition obviously needs to go both ways. The mines should stop anyone from traveling AQ to GQ too.

As for the Dominion, I don't really blame them for seeing that region of the AQ as a threat. 3 of the 4 major powers are very aggressive and militaristic. The Dominion was probably right to be concerned about this new short cut that appeared relatively close to their territory.
Not to mention that three of the four powers are blundering baboons that step all over each other and accidentally incite a war where none needed to happen. Sheesh, the Klingons of all people were the only ones who didn't help cause that war! Pretty sad state of affairs when they're the most responsible power in the AQ. What a frakkin' zoo!

Oh trust me...Starfleet policy doesn't NEED anybody to sabotage it. Just see TNG for evidence.
:rommie:
 
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Well, the Klingons provided the excuse for the Dominion to get a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant, by attacking the Cardassians just because the Cardassians decided to overthrow Central Command! I would hardly consider them exempt.
 
The Dominion War was inevitable.

Starfleet is built on exploration, so to them the discovery of the wormhole was gold. Kind of like the Klingons finding a new enemy to fight, or the Ferengi finding a new business opportunity/demand for a new product.

But Starfleet did not know, in the outset, that the Dominion existed, but given how the Founders despise solids, conflict had to ensue. I think as soon as the Founders were uncovered, the wormhole should have been mined, or even destroyed. Screw what the Bajorans would have thought lol. Seriously, who gives a crap? Bajor was being protected by the Federation, show some gratitude.

What was better, alliance with the Federation or Cardassian rule (if the Federation ever left Bajor/DS9, what's to stop the Cardassians coming back?) Tough call, eh? :lol:
 
I almost wonder if things would've gone better if the Ferengi had been allowed to keep control of Dominion-AQ relations? I mean, the Ferengi actually were doing pretty well with the Karemma...

Might at least have given time for the other powers to do some intel work, and to build up and get ready for a fight.
 
^ They should've mined the entrance to the wormhole waaayyyy earlier, so... whoever was in charge of that...
Or just blow it up. The Rommies had the right idea. And if the Prophets really were gods, of course they'd be fine. You can't blow up a god. :p
Gods or not, they're very powerful aliens that might be annoyed by that. :p

Marie is right, these ppl really didn't want peace.
Then why did the Feds sign a peace treaty with the Dominion? Surely they can't be expected to honor that treaty if they are drooling warmongers bent on imperial conquest!

Considering that the Doms didn't launch an aggressive war until after their homeworld had been targetted for obliteration, it's impossible to say that they were acting imperialistically. They were fully justified in launching a war in self-defense at that point, and since the Feds later signed a peace treaty with the Doms, the Feds must agree that the Doms' motives were other than simple imperial conquest.

...

Sure, you send ships. You don't let civilians found colonies, or if they do, you make sure they know they're on their own. Then, when you get thwacked, you retreat fast, put up a defensive shield (mines at the very least) and assess the situation. You don't stomp around like Dax did and declare your unconditional right to explore (trespass) wherever you feel like, not unless you really like getting into wars with your neighbors.
Put up a warning buoy with a Universal Translator on the GQ side. If the folks there are like Starfleet and blithely ignore warnings, then they deserve to get blown up.
The travel prohibition obviously needs to go both ways. The mines should stop anyone from traveling AQ to GQ too.
Not true- the Dominion had made a whole list of AQ ships etc. "disappear" without any apparent warning- murdering a bunch of people could be considered an act of war. That was in the second season, "The Jem'hadar".
 
Banning traffic wouldn't keep the Dominion out of the AQ tho, so when they proved they did not want peace, minefield should've been tossed up.

Hell, their first clue should have been the name DOMINION to begin with. That name isn't exactly as nice and inviting as the United Federation of Planets.

Evil Empire: "Hi, we're an empire called the Conquerors, and we'd love to co-exist with you peacefully!"

Feds: "You're not gonna do any conquering, are you?"

Evil Empire: "No, sir."

Feds: "Then alright! Welcome aboard! Waitamminit, that's a plasma disrupter shotgun behind your back..."

Evil Empire: "No, it's not. It's a ...um ... It's an Ornament Ball Launcher, for Christmas trees."

Feds: "Oooh, I like Christmas trees! They light up real nice!"

Evil Empire: "I bet they do... MWAHAHAHAHAHHAH!"

Feds: "A-hahaha! You are SUCH a HOOT!"
 
The Federation indicated many times they weren't interested in fighting the Domonion, and it was the Dominion who kept pushing the issue.

When the Federation tried to seal the wormhole, the Dominion had the perfect answer to any threat from the A.Q.

Instead, they plotted to keep it open, so they could continue the conflict.


mirandafave

Re: Star Fleet/Federation Culpability
The idea to mine the wormhole was a great idea - but why did it have to take someone like Rom to come up with it and so last minute!? That means Starfleet Command or Intelligence weren't doing their jobs. But considering Sisko had a person under his charge with the ability to come up with them why didn't HE press the matter a little bit more.

That is a good point-it's as if it just occured to Starfleet that they should figure out a way to mine the wormhole, right at that moment.

Granted they did come up with the idea itself, but then just left the details to Sisko's crew to figure out at the last moment.,
 
After the third season episode Destiny with the subspace filament through the wormhole and the relay station in the gamma Quadrant, Starfleet could have mined the wormhole on their side. The relay station on the far end could have issued a warning not to come through without permission. Modern 21st century mines can be turned on and off remotely and so should the 24th century mines covering the wormhole. When DS9 wanted to let a ship through switch off the mines and give the approaching ship go ahead. The Dominion wouldn't have any say about what happens in the Alpha Quadrant.

If the Dominion wanted to mine the farside of the wormhole, the Federation couldn't have said anything about that.



^ They should've mined the entrance to the wormhole waaayyyy earlier, so... whoever was in charge of that...
Or just blow it up. The Rommies had the right idea. And if the Prophets really were gods, of course they'd be fine. You can't blow up a god. :p
Gods or not, they're very powerful aliens that might be annoyed by that. :p
Shouldn't piss-off the Prophets, if they get mad enough at the Romulans they might supernova a star near Romulus and destroy the Romulan home world.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

:):):)
 
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