standard DS9 VS B5 thread

[Share 8th dan]

First of all I'd like to admit that I'm a troll and my intention is only to make fun on expence of DS9.
After I was stupid enough to say to some ST-fan that I watched B5 and enjoyed it, that SoB recommended me to watch also DS9. I watched first season and the beginning of second and I was bored to death. Then by accident I replaced DS9S2 folder with DS9S3 folder and continued watching right after S02E02 with S03E03. And I have watched almost half of the third season without even noticing that I've missed the whole 2-d season. May be I am stupid, but the other option is that DS9 got almost no solid plot line and the characters there are plastic and boring compared to B5.

Lets start comparing starting with the station itself:
DS9- small station making it easy to shoot the series but sucks to see the same interior.
B5-Huge station with the great places to see. Remember Sheridan falling from the exploding train?

DS9 was a prison for Bajorans, why the hell would they make an ore-processing plant there? Isn't it stupid to bring the RAW ORE to a space station, make a metals out of it and bring it back to a surface?
If space is a safest place to put a prison, why to shield it? And if space isn't the safe place, why to put prison there at all? Or may be every Cardassian prison has a shields of a warship?
Why does Federation uses DS9 at all? That station almost killed every it's inhabitant in "Civil Defence" episode. Aren't Vulkans, Klingons, Andorians, Humans and all other thousands spieces of the Federation able to build a normal station with a federal security codes and energy systems and not Cardassian? Or the stable wormhole isn't worth an effort?
Bajorans are not the members of the Federation, so why to bother using the cardassian leftovers that belong to them? Federal own station would save all the problems.

 

[Michael]

Poor effort.

 

[Share 8th dan]

The technologies!
God damn it, the technologies in Star Trek are stupid... For example, how "Food Replicators" capable of making everything from Corn Flakes, Cups, Plates to Phasor Blasters ready to shoot, can exist in the world where the currency is "pieces of latinum"?
The shields! Okey, it is nice to have in games like MOO2, but it is sooooo stupid... If the shields are possible to break with lets say 5 hits of phasor beam why not to make the weapons 5 times stronger on the expence of let's say half of the shields power?
The transporter technology! How the hell the transporter can catch someone not standing in transporter cabin? And if it's possible then why to board one's ship if it is possible to kick all the crew into open space using the same transporter?
The "Deus ex Machina" drives me crazy. Instead of elegant or logical tactical solutions of B5, Star Trek guys just "invent" another portion of technological bullsh1t and get out of troubles. Like entering the cheat codes in the game when you are screwed.
The professionalism of a superman! Engeneers are always capable of hacking the alien computers build with completely different architecture and running on operation sistem never seen by that engeneer, doctors are masters of healing the spiecies they meet for the first time, pilots are capable to fly on any alien ship in the galaxy...

 

[mattyhugh]

Go away.

 

[DevilEyes]

First of all I'd like to admit that I'm a troll and my intention is only to make fun on expence of DS9.

You're a very poor troll. If you want to troll a forum, it's not a good idea to announce it right away. It's as bad as a villain saying "I am eeevil, mu ha ha ha".

After I was stupid enough to say to some ST-fan that I watched B5 and enjoyed it, that SoB recommended me to watch also DS9. I watched first season and the beginning of second and I was bored to death. Then by accident I replaced DS9S2 folder with DS9S3 folder and continued watching right after S02E02 with S03E03. And I have watched almost half of the third season without even noticing that I've missed the whole 2-d season.

You didn't even notice that a three-parter didn't get concluded, or you thought that it makes perfect sense to go from a political thriller about the Circle, that ends with "TO BE CONTINUED", to Quark's wacky adventures with Klingons. There's your second mistake - revealing in your first post that you're an idiot.

May be I am stupid, but the other option is that DS9 got almost no solid plot line and the characters there are plastic and boring compared to B5.

Nah, you got it right with option 1. Bingo.

 

[Kegg]

Then by accident I replaced DS9S2 folder with DS9S3 folder and continued watching right after S02E02 with S03E03. And I have watched almost half of the third season without even noticing that I've missed the whole 2-d season. May be I am stupid,

Quite, and possibly intentionally so. Skipping the season two finale and season three opening episodes does sort of glide over major arc material.

 

[Share 8th dan]

Poor effort.

I'll try my best )

Okey, the girls of Star Trek are sexy, much sexier then of Babylon5. T'Pol, the bajoran girlfriend of young Sisco, trill Dax...
But ALIEN girls should look like ones you would NEVER want to have sex with. Have you seen the movie Alien? Whould you like to have Alien female in your bed? )
Okey, may be they could look a little less scary, for example like Na'Toth of Babylon5, but not human like!

Dax for example only has some tatoo, and Kira got some dirt on her nose. They both look more Human then Sisco who is black!

Strangely almost all the races of the universe has about the same technology level, as if they all were waiting for humans to get into space. At least Defiant can fight any enemy unlike Agamemnon who is harmless even against Minbari ships. And no supiriour Varlons, no Shadows capable of destroying the entire Narn fleet with a couple of ships with no damage taken... No BORinG, and no dOmiNION can be compared to such an enemies...

And some races like Ferenghi seems to be not less stupid then the authors of ST. I can understand that whoever writes the stories for Star Trek is not a big fan of capitalism and private property, but why to make the business race grotesque liers and decievers? Honesty and a good reputation is very good for business, ST writers should know that...
How klingons have managed to get into space if they are still at feodalic age, both with the structure of their society and with their intellectual qualities?
And the most disappointing are the Humans... Where is all the greed, lust for power, intolarance, strict rules for the Starfleet officers, political intrigues? On Babylon5 Sheridan always was in the center of political agendas, and Humans were even more dangerous enemies of B5 then even Shadows. Humans of ST are disgusting, always following their little FEELING, without thinking of the conquences. I realy like to see them all died, but not only they are disgusting, but they are also immortal!

What is realy the interest of watching the "dangerous adventures" where you know for sure that noone is gonna die, no matter how stupid they act?

Lets compare the races by interest:
B5 got Minbari that have trained mind of Vulkans and honor codex of Klingon
B5 god Narn that is equal to Andorians
B5 got great Centari that are more interesting then and other 3 races of Star Trek put together. For example if we'll take Gorak, add the gambling interests of Quark and kind attitude of dr.Phlox from Enterprise you can get something close to Londo Mollari

And what does ST have to offer?

 

[Share 8th dan]

You're a very poor troll. If you want to troll a forum, it's not a good idea to announce it right away. It's as bad as a villain saying "I am eeevil, mu ha ha ha".

Sorry for breaking one of troll rules. It won't happen again.

There's your second mistake - revealing in your first post that you're an idiot.

May be I am stupid, but the other option is that DS9 got almost no solid plot line and the characters there are plastic and boring compared to B5.

Nah, you got it right with option 1. Bingo.

As I said, I can accept the option that I am an idiot, but I'd prefere not to do it since there is still option 2, that DS9 boring and plotless compared to much better show like Babylon 5.

And until now not a word was writen to the point (about the DS9 or B5). Only about my humble person. And that pleases me a lot since I'm a troll




The captains of star trek are sooo stupid... In B5 universe they wouldn't survive a minute...

I can imagine the battle between White Star and Defiant like that:

Ivanova: Enemy ship "Defiant" is detected.
Kira: Our sensors are detecting light ship. It is on the very end of range of our sensors but we are able to identify it. It is an enemy ship "White Star"

Marcus: Target locked.
Odo in shape of Malcolm Reed: They are targeting their weapons on us!

Sicso:Hail them.
Sheridan: Fire!

Hoshi Dax: they are not responding
Sheridan: Fire! Maneur 372 using the gravity field of collapsar. Fire again, accelerate, 180 degrees turn and again FIRE!

Young O'Brian looking exactly like Trip: Engeneering to the bridge, we'are taking heavy damage!
Ivanova, pressing the big red button: I'm a god!

Sicso: Prepare the photon cannons, target their engines
Bester (grinning): and one more unpleasant surprise for you...

Odo(in shape of Reed): Cannons are offline...
Sheridan(pressing the biggest and reddest button): Asta la vista baby...

 

[Kegg]

But ALIEN girls should look like ones you would NEVER want to have sex with. Have you seen the movie Alien? Whould you like to have Alien female in your bed? )

Welcome to the internet. Heard of Rule 34? I'm sure that somewhere there are people who really wish they could help the Alien Queen lay her eggs, if you know what I mean.

Not a terribly compelling argument in context, when comparing this to the series with Delenn. Yeah, B5 has less attractive women aliens, (and less attractive women - what?) but same deal, why not.

Besides, why can't we? If we started rejecting alien women on the basis of them being attractive, we'd have no Zhaan or Chiana. This would make me very sad.

Dax for example only has some tatoo, and Kira got some dirt on her nose. They both look more Human then Sisco who is black!

Uh, they do look more white, Caucasian if that's what you mean, and if that's what you mean, um. Let's just say, remember what annihilated people of the Ikara 7 in "Infection"? Why, precisely such assumptions about racial purity they then coded into their killing machine. B5 itself frowns on your assumptions! Ho ho, checkmate!

Besides, Londo is just a guy with a skin condition on his forehead. The hairstyle isn't exactly a gaping feature that makes him look non-human, just that egghead. Centauri women don't even have that - they could effortlessly pass for human women much more so than Kira or Dax ever could.

I can understand that whoever writes the stories for Star Trek is not a big fan of capitalism and private property, but why to make the business race grotesque liers and decievers?

You can understand why people aren't fans of capitalism but not why they'd then make capitalists look bad?

How klingons have managed to get into space if they are still at feodalic age, both with the structure of their society and with their intellectual qualities?

Probably the same way the Centauri did, despite being enmeshed in an early modern Europe absolutist monarchy.

What is realy the interest of watching the "dangerous adventures" where you know for sure that noone is gonna die, no matter how stupid they act?

I dunno, but I tuned into B5 each week anyway.

 

[GotNoRice]

I think they were both awesome and it would be even better if there were even more shows like that.

Do you guys only have time to watch one TV show?

 

[Jono]

First of all I'd like to admit that I'm a troll and my intention is only to make fun on expence of DS9.

You're not the first nor will you be the last.

After I was stupid enough to say to some ST-fan that I watched B5 and enjoyed it, that SoB recommended me to watch also DS9.

Definitely sounds like a prick. Why would anyone offer suggestions to other people on shows they might enjoy?

I watched first season and the beginning of second and I was bored to death.

Pity that wasn't literal.

Then by accident I replaced DS9S2 folder with DS9S3 folder and continued watching right after S02E02 with S03E03.

Counting is hard.

Lets start comparing starting with the station itself:
DS9- small station making it easy to shoot the series but sucks to see the same interior.
B5-Huge station with the great places to see. Remember Sheridan falling from the exploding train?

So you're a size queen. I guess "size doesn't matter it's how you use it" would be lost on you.

DS9 was a prison for Bajorans, why the hell would they make an ore-processing plant there? Isn't it stupid to bring the RAW ORE to a space station, make a metals out of it and bring it back to a surface?

Because they weren't taking it back to Bajor. The Cardassians were stripping the planet of its resources. That was what the station was built for. The Cardassians wanted Bajorans to serve as slave labour so they kept them on the station as well.

If space is a safest place to put a prison, why to shield it? And if space isn't the safe place, why to put prison there at all? Or may be every Cardassian prison has a shields of a warship?

Because its a station with Cardassians and precious ore. You need to be able to protect your investment.

Why does Federation uses DS9 at all? That station almost killed every it's inhabitant in "Civil Defence" episode. Aren't Vulkans, Klingons, Andorians, Humans and all other thousands spieces of the Federation able to build a normal station with a federal security codes and energy systems and not Cardassian?
Or the stable wormhole isn't worth an effort?
Bajorans are not the members of the Federation, so why to bother using the cardassian leftovers that belong to them? Federal own station would save all the problems.

They use DS9 because they were invited to help administer the station, which following the Cardassians retreat is now a Bajoran station in Bajoran space. The Federation could only build a station there if the Bajorans allowed them to, which is unlikely as it would be a Federation station and not a Bajoran one.

Sisco

It's spelt S-I-S-K-O.

Dax for example only has some tatoo, and Kira got some dirt on her nose. They both look more Human then Sisco who is black!

As blatant a trap as I've ever seen, I don't even need Admiral Ackbar to point that one out.

Strangely almost all the races of the universe has about the same technology level, as if they all were waiting for humans to get into space.

And no supiriour Varlons, no Shadows capable of destroying the entire Narn fleet with a couple of ships with no damage taken... No BORinG, and no dOmiNION can be compared to such an enemies...

No Borg and Onion can compare? I don't remember Onions been a big threat in ST...other than to fresh breath.

And some races like Ferenghi seems to be not less stupid then the authors of ST. I can understand that whoever writes the stories for Star Trek is not a big fan of capitalism and private property, but why to make the business race grotesque liers and decievers? Honesty and a good reputation is very good for business, ST writers should know that...

How klingons have managed to get into space if they are still at feodalic age, both with the structure of their society and with their intellectual qualities?

Just because they are a race of warriors doesn't mean they are stupid.

And the most disappointing are the Humans... Where is all the greed, lust for power, intolarance, strict rules for the Starfleet officers, political intrigues? On Babylon5 Sheridan always was in the center of political agendas, and Humans were even more dangerous enemies of B5 then even Shadows. Humans of ST are disgusting, always following their little FEELING, without thinking of the conquences. I realy like to see them all died, but not only they are disgusting, but they are also immortal!

Hard to pick this apart as it barely makes sense.

Star Trek is about a more evolved humanity that is "better" than us in the 20th/21st century. You still have humans who are greedy, lust for power, are intolerant.

As for strict rules for Starfleet...Prime directive, only instance of the death penalty in the Federation is connected to a Starfleet general order. As for political intrigue...there's plenty about. What I take from this is that you really haven't "watched" Star Trek at all. You might have seen it but it must have just washed over you.

What is realy the interest of watching the "dangerous adventures" where you know for sure that noone is gonna die, no matter how stupid they act?

No idea where you came up with this immortality stuff. People die all the time, mostly ones with red shirts on.

Lets compare the races by interest:
B5 got Minbari that have trained mind of Vulkans and honor codex of Klingon
B5 god Narn that is equal to Andorians
B5 got great Centari that are more interesting then and other 3 races of Star Trek put together. For example if we'll take Gorak, add the gambling interests of Quark and kind attitude of dr.Phlox from Enterprise you can get something close to Londo Mollari

From that list it seem that the B5 and ST races are equal in your opinion. Interesting that you think the other 3 races of Trek are Cardassians, Ferengi and Denobulans.

And what does ST have to offer?

Star Trek has a lot to offer: compelling characters and storylines. Interesting moral and ethical choices. A fascinating universe full of interesting places and people. It offers entertainment and it can make you think.

However, since you're hear purely to spin shit by your own admission I doubt you'll be able to see anything positive in Star Trek due to having a narrow and closed mind to the subject.

 

[Sykonee]

Pft, this is the only 'standard' Trek vs B5 we need:

Epic Space Battle, Part 1

Epic Space Battle, Part 2

 

[crouteru]

I don't get it... DS9 and B5 are two of the greatest sci-fi shows of the 90s. Why deny yourself one over the other just because of some old rivalry between fans of each show?

I pity the OP

 

[Harry Baldy]

Welcome to the internet. Heard of Rule 34? I'm sure that somewhere there are people who really wish they could help the Alien Queen lay her eggs, if you know what I mean.

I'd prefere to be as far from such a people as possible )

Not a terribly compelling argument in context, when comparing this to the series with Delenn.

Delenn became a half-human before Sheridan even thought about them together. And still, she was nice, interesting, deep minded but not SEXY.

Yeah, B5 has less attractive women aliens, (and less attractive women - what?) but same deal, why not.

Do you like 20 years old blondes nuclear physic specialists with PhD in Holliwood movies? I hate it, but still I hate it less then sexy alien women starfleet commander...

Besides, why can't we? If we started rejecting alien women on the basis of them being attractive, we'd have no Zhaan or Chiana. This would make me very sad.

You'd still have human beauties of TOS with their extra short skirts )

Uh, they do look more white, Caucasian if that's what you mean, and if that's what you mean, um. Let's just say, remember what annihilated people of the Ikara 7 in "Infection"? Why, precisely such assumptions about racial purity they then coded into their killing machine. B5 itself frowns on your assumptions! Ho ho, checkmate!

Well, I'll not argue about racial problems of earth, but B5 has nothing to do with ST aliens with LESS differences from Caucasian race then another HUMAN race- Black people. Tell me the truth, doesn't that look a bit wrong to you?

Besides, Londo is just a guy with a skin condition on his forehead. The hairstyle isn't exactly a gaping feature that makes him look non-human, just that egghead. Centauri women don't even have that - they could effortlessly pass for human women much more so than Kira or Dax ever could.

Do not forget his... khm... "Fireman" capable to grabbing cards from under the table... And he got 6 of such a tentacles under his dress...

You can understand why people aren't fans of capitalism but not why they'd then make capitalists look bad?

Well, there is a difference between acquiring the property and thievery. And if writer doesn't understand the difference then he's very stupid...

Probably the same way the Centauri did, despite being enmeshed in an early modern Europe absolutist monarchy.

Monarchy can really do a lot with a proper leader. Like Stalin for example. But Feodalism of a thousands "Houses" will just be too separated for big things like entering the space. And they are stupid! Centari are phylosophers like ancient Romans, Narn even locked in jail will write a book, Minbari have a trained mind Vulkan-like. But Klingons? I do not thing such a race could ever be spacetravelers, unless taken aboard as someone's pets...

I dunno, but I tuned into B5 each week anyway.

You bastard! )
But seriously, in B5 many died. Marcus, Sheridan itself (even twice) ), Londo with G'kar, 2 worlds were completely devastated, one of the most charismatic characters- Morden... I watched B5 about 4 years ago so may be I've missed someone. Especially when plot characters of episode impotance were diyng so often...

 

[Kegg]

I'd prefere to be as far from such a people as possible )

Using two accounts is frowned on, you know.

Delenn became a half-human before Sheridan even thought about them together. And still, she was nice, interesting, deep minded but not SEXY.

with LESS differences from Caucasian race then another HUMAN race- Black people. Tell me the truth, doesn't that look a bit wrong to you?

Not really. B5 was guilty of the same thing with Londo Mollari, and DS9 also did this in reverse with Worf. It's the realities of having human actors play your space aliens.

Monarchy can really do a lot with a proper leader. Like Stalin for example. But Feodalism of a thousands "Houses" will just be too separated for big things like entering the space.

Feudalism doesn't inheritantly prohibit space travel any more than absolutist monarchy did, and I'd remind you there's plenty of essentially feudal practices amongst the Centauri anyway.

And they are stupid!

Listen to Worf some time. Smart guy.

But seriously, in B5 many died.

Typically in season finales and the like. DS9 did the exact same thing - right, did it less (speaking solely of regulars, did it once) but it's not so great a difference. On a midweek episode you don't expect Sisko and co. or Sheridan an the gang to go kablooey, such is life.

 

[Harry Baldy]

I think they were both awesome and it would be even better if there were even more shows like that.
Do you guys only have time to watch one TV show?

May be if there would be no high standarts of B5, ST would look like a good show... But the real quality can be seen only through comparison

Because they weren't taking it back to Bajor. The Cardassians were stripping the planet of its resources. That was what the station was built for. The Cardassians wanted Bajorans to serve as slave labour so they kept them on the station as well.

What you say is that Cardassians were even more stupid then I thought, as are you argeeng with them. When you have the full planet full of slaves, why to take RAW ORE into space? I even can undestand taking rare metals from there, may be if space voyages are cheap for Cardassians even the common metals, but to take row ore right from the mines and into a space station is extreemly stupid...

Just because they are a race of warriors doesn't mean they are stupid.

Right! There is no connections between being warrior and being stupid. For example you are stupid without being warrior! But ST writers has made that connection somehow...

Star Trek is about a more evolved humanity that is "better" than us in the 20th/21st century. You still have humans who are greedy, lust for power, are intolerant.

First Enterprise was launched in only about 200 years from now. Can humanity change? Well, has human nature changed much from 18th century? My answer that the army of Napoleon wasn't any less moral then todays US army.

As for strict rules for Starfleet...

Haven't you noticed that almost every Starfleet captain does watever he wants without being arrested for that?

No idea where you came up with this immortality stuff. People die all the time, mostly ones with red shirts on.

Star Trek: Enterprise. Only 1 senior officer (Trip) died, and even he died only in last episode. The only character with name who died besides Trip was Dagna

Lets compare the races by interest:
B5 got Minbari that have trained mind of Vulkans and honor codex of Klingon
B5 god Narn that is equal to Andorians
B5 got great Centari that are more interesting then and other 3 races of Star Trek put together. For example if we'll take Gorak, add the gambling interests of Quark and kind attitude of dr.Phlox from Enterprise you can get something close to Londo Mollari

From that list it seem that the B5 and ST races are equal in your opinion. Interesting that you think the other 3 races of Trek are Cardassians, Ferengi and Denobulans.

Let's see it from other side:
Klingons- All that is interesting about them is their honor codex which is only a PART of Minbary culture (warrior cast)
Vulcans- thay are realy interesting race, and I like them very much. But they also are equal to only a PART of Minbari (Priests cast)
Denabulans- only interesting in them is their 3 wifes+3husbands sistem. Phlox is awsome, there is no doubt, but his kind attitude is only a PART of Londo Mollari and Centari race
Cardassians- are also only the part of Centari racial qualities.
and so on...

And finally can you compare those Friend/Enemy relations of Quark/Odo with the relations of Londo/G'Kar?

Star Trek has a lot to offer: compelling characters and storylines. Interesting moral and ethical choices.

No, they don't! that's the point! They alway act like "their heart tells them to" with no single act of cold logical choice of "lesser evil". Who allowed those people to be a captains? ))) Well, I know who, and don't like those guys.

A fascinating universe full of interesting places and people. It offers entertainment and it can make you think.

Think??? Name at least 1 situation with a good planning, and brilliant strategic moves. In B5 "Legend of the Rangers" the Draal ship was destroyed very nicely, so did Sheridan to Minbari warship. It wasn't "moral" or "honorable" but it did the deed...

 

[flemm]

*clicks on thread despite his better judgement*

*has long and pointless argument*

*decides eventually to just let it drop*

*goes back to watching DS9*

There, I just thought I'd get that over with as quickly as possible. Thanks for stopping by

 

[Harry Baldy]

Not really. B5 was guilty of the same thing with Londo Mollari, and DS9 also did this in reverse with Worf. It's the realities of having human actors play your space aliens.

Well there can be one race looking like humans, with a slight differences. Denobulans in Star Trek take that role of Centari. But that is enough. All other spicies MUST be different. Narn, Drazi, Shadows, Vorlons are different from humans. Like Reptilloids, Aquatics and Insectoids of St:Enterprise. But races like Romulans and especially Bajorans make me very unhappy )
ST could just make 10 times less races but work 10 times more on each one of them.

[/quote]
Feudalism doesn't inheritantly prohibit space travel any more than absolutist monarchy did, and I'd remind you there's plenty of essentially feudal practices amongst the Centauri anyway.

The whole Earth had to unite in order to build the first Enterprise. Is it possible in society divided into thousands of Houses? Especially when houses are ruled by the Warrior Cast and they are not exactly brainiacs...

Typically in season finales and the like. DS9 did the exact same thing - right, did it less (speaking solely of regulars, did it once) but it's not so great a difference. On a midweek episode you don't expect Sisko and co. or Sheridan an the gang to go kablooey, such is life.

Why not? People ARE expandable, and Sisko could be replaced by another commander. And show would only become better.
In B5 commander Sinkler was replaced by Sheridan and it was great move. Btw, Sinkler also could technically be counted as one who died in B5).

 

[Temis the Vorta]

But ALIEN girls should look like ones you would NEVER want to have sex with. Have you seen the movie Alien? Whould you like to have Alien female in your bed? )

Turn in your fanboy card!

 

[happydave]

No Borg and Onion can compare? I don't remember Onions been a big threat in ST...other than to fresh breath.

Don't be mean about the onions, they're the most complex race Star Trek has ever seen. Talk about layers upon layers of depth.

I cry everytime they're on screen. So tragic.