Stamets taking Ripper's place
- Thread starter Refuge
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It's human experimentation right? I know I shall get a flood of examples of how other shows have done this too.. but how come the protocol to prevent this hasn't protected Stamet? Perhaps there isn't one.. I get the first jump he chose to take Ripper's place. However it seems unpleasant to see Staemet's friends so accepting that he's changing..
It was human experimentation that Stamets did to himself, of his own volition, not something that was forced upon him.
Stamets seems to be having a good time communing with his shrooms and is willingly choosing to be the ship's navigator. He's not doing something against his will. Culber is running regular tests on Stamets and they've developed a way for the process to be less painful and invasive. With the exception of Stamets being out of temporal sync he's not displaying any negative side effects yet.
Stamets seems to be having a good time communing with his shrooms and is willingly choosing to be the ship's navigator. He's not doing something against his will. Culber is running regular tests on Stamets and they've developed a way for the process to be less painful and invasive. With the exception of Stamets being out of temporal sync he's not displaying any negative side effects yet.
True but he did it to himself. Nobody asked him or forced him to.
Lorca's responsible for what happens on his ship regardless if he was onboard at the time or not. But regardless, even after finding out, Lorca did not put a stop to it, and he's still allowing it even after getting chewed out by his superior over it. Even if he did have plausible deniability, he doesn't anymore.
They are adapting his interface with the drive, and it is wartime. Without that now-you-see-me-now-you-don't advantage, the war could be lost.
Inter arma enim silent legēs.
How much of the odd behaviour in this last episode (certainly at the start) was him going "loopy". He may well have started off with a door been opened in his face, or Lorca interrupting him in his backswing.
How much of the odd behaviour in this last episode (certainly at the start) was him going "loopy". He may well have started off with a door been opened in his face, or Lorca interrupting him in his backswing.
Why would "human experimentation" be forbidden or frowned upon? It's what Starfleet is all about - putting humans in inhuman conditions in order to learn more. Everybody does it today, too: "You all did well with that machine gun nest test - let's run a little experiment on whether you can take on an armored car. We get a nice statistical comparison between all your different degrees of wounds, too."
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Why would human experimentation be forbidden or frowned upon?? Er because it'd potentially dangerous. Hitler sanctioned that kind of shit. Come on if Starfleet has a regulation not to do it there is a reason for it. If it is not against regulation then fine.. but if it is.. then why is it okay for Stamets friends and partner to enable it further?
Winning the war because of it is likely the main reason. Starfleet's not asking questions if Lorca is getting results.
The issue they will have will be if they want to get more starships fitted with Spore Drives. They might not be able to look away when the subject of navigator comes up for the new ships.
This is Stamets' research, so it would make sense that he be allowed to continue it for the duration of the war since he volunteered himself for the procedure. Once the war ends, than the questions start. If the drive doesn't have some pretty bad side effects, or is proven to not be working as expected, than the drive would only be banned due to it being against Federation law to augment humans genetically, and the drive is only proven to work with human navigators and an elusive overgrown microbial lifeform that that self jump. If that was the case, than either the data on it was so top secret that the information is above captain security clearances, and thus starship captains lost in the far reaches of the galaxy (or in other galaxies) would not find any record of the Spore Drive in their computers.
That would be more of a copout for not attempting to use this thing when USS Voyager was lost (though maybe it does require a round saucer, which Voyager does not have) or USS Enterprise the various times it was propelled far from its pervious location, or even past M33 or the edge of the universe? A more reasonable concept would be that the drive is a dimensional jumper, but they never figured out how to predict what dimension they would end up in, making the idea iffy at best since they might end up in a todally weird universe as oppose to one that is more or less like their own (with someone else with the drive ending up in their home universe instead.)
The issue they will have will be if they want to get more starships fitted with Spore Drives. They might not be able to look away when the subject of navigator comes up for the new ships.
This is Stamets' research, so it would make sense that he be allowed to continue it for the duration of the war since he volunteered himself for the procedure. Once the war ends, than the questions start. If the drive doesn't have some pretty bad side effects, or is proven to not be working as expected, than the drive would only be banned due to it being against Federation law to augment humans genetically, and the drive is only proven to work with human navigators and an elusive overgrown microbial lifeform that that self jump. If that was the case, than either the data on it was so top secret that the information is above captain security clearances, and thus starship captains lost in the far reaches of the galaxy (or in other galaxies) would not find any record of the Spore Drive in their computers.
That would be more of a copout for not attempting to use this thing when USS Voyager was lost (though maybe it does require a round saucer, which Voyager does not have) or USS Enterprise the various times it was propelled far from its pervious location, or even past M33 or the edge of the universe? A more reasonable concept would be that the drive is a dimensional jumper, but they never figured out how to predict what dimension they would end up in, making the idea iffy at best since they might end up in a todally weird universe as oppose to one that is more or less like their own (with someone else with the drive ending up in their home universe instead.)
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What's that got to do with anything? Genetic engineering in a willing participant has nothing to do with twin experiments in concentration camps.
I still think Stamets is crazy to voluntarily experiment on himself. But, it's understandable, given the stakes, and I don't think it's the same thing as humans being subjected to horrific scientific experiments against their will. It's a bit disingenuous to assert that they are equivalent situations, in my opinion.
That said, I do believe we will see some negative consequences to Stamets' actions down the line. after all, the DASH drive does not become a standardized propulsion system.
That said, I do believe we will see some negative consequences to Stamets' actions down the line. after all, the DASH drive does not become a standardized propulsion system.
C
Captain pl1ngpl0ng
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A law on such a subject are probably riddled with paragraphs and subsections, loopholes and grey zones which can be exploited or interpreted in different directions?
The main reason starfleet had issues with eugenics is because it resulted in Khan and the augments. We know that in the 24th century that birth defects and genetic abnormalities are corrected before a baby is born. So clearly some level of genetic engineering is allowed by the federation.
There is also massive difference between nazi experimentation on prisoners and eugenics being used for racial purity, and what stamets is doing to himself of his own volition. He's doing it so the tardigrade didn't have to. Weren't you against the tardigrade being used to navigate the spore drive?
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