Spoilers ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season Two Discussion

[Mark_Nguyen]

Wow, the new info has been coming hard and fast here, so let's set up the Season Two discussion thread properly!

Wasn't totally expecting, but am looking forward to:

- Starfleet in 2401! Already we see that in two years they've completely given their uniforms a makeover, giving us a new uniform that looks influenced by the early 2380s "classic" look. Certainly influenced by a group of scrappy kids on those Cali-class ships? Plus new cadet uniforms to boot. We didn't see too much of the neo-DS9/VOY uniforms last year, but they're suddenly replaced...

- Are the hand phasers seen in the first episode clips the same kind used by Seven and others in season 1? Looks like beams are a thing of the past, once and for all...

- The STARGAZER! And that BRIDGE! Now THIS is the design aesthetic I was hoping for, a true post-Sovereign evolution at once shiny and familiar!

- Does Rios just carry a cigar around unlit, or has he negotiated with the Stargazer fire extinguisher protocols to let him somehow stay in flavour country while not annoying his crew?

- Does that security team have to take two lifts to get to the bridge..?

Mark

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Wow, the new info has been coming hard and fast here, so let's set up the Season Two discussion thread properly!

Wasn't totally expecting, but am looking forward to:

- Starfleet in 2401! Already we see that in two years they've completely given their uniforms a makeover, giving us a new uniform that looks influenced by the early 2380s "classic" look. Certainly influenced by a group of scrappy kids on those Cali-class ships? Plus new cadet uniforms to boot. We didn't see too much of the neo-DS9/VOY uniforms last year, but they're suddenly replaced...

- Are the hand phasers seen in the first episode clips the same kind used by Seven and others in season 1? Looks like beams are a thing of the past, once and for all...

That's something I've been complaining about in other threads.
For Person to Person combat, Solid Beams makes ZERO logical sense. That split second to a few seconds of standing still is asking for the user to get shot at in retaliation.

IRL Gun battles using Slug Throwers have people "Shoot & Scoot", or hide behind cover and:
(aim, fire, potentially move / duck behind cover, adjust barrel aim / reacquire your target) <- rinse & repeat ad infinitum.

You can't do that when during TNG era, they literally had officers stand still to make sure the solid beam wouldn't veer away from the target due to person waving around the phaser.

That's asking for ALOT of issues, especially retaliatory fire. That's just fundamentally dumb on a pure logic basis in combat.

Ship to Ship combat, solid beams makes PERFECT sense when you're a beast of a ship and can output ALOT more energy than a measily hand phaser and have computer aiming.

- The STARGAZER! And that BRIDGE! Now THIS is the design aesthetic I was hoping for, a true post-Sovereign evolution at once shiny and familiar!

It'll be interesting to see the full scene.

- Does Rios just carry a cigar around unlit, or has he negotiated with the Stargazer fire extinguisher protocols to let him somehow stay in flavour country while not annoying his crew?

I think he might have negotiated something.

- Does that security team have to take two lifts to get to the bridge..?

Seriously, ZERO Body Armor, Personal Shields for the security team?

Looks like they've learned NOTHING about Person to Person combat, STILL.

 

[fireproof78]

Body armor has never made it in Trek, beyond brief appearances.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Also: Our new Stargazer is NCC-82893. The LAST Stargazer was NCC-2893.

Clearly not a coincidence IRL, but in-universe, does this mean that the one lonely guy in charge of assigning names to hull numbers has a sense of humour? Or took a payoff from Picard or Benayoun or one of the other survivors?

Mark

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Body armor has never made it in Trek, beyond brief appearances.

Yes, I know, that can be fixed if the production designers wanted to.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

You can't do that when during TNG era, they literally had officers stand still to make sure the solid beam wouldn't veer away from the target due to person waving around the phaser.

That was a limitation of the effects not the weapon. Beam phasers are (or should be) as fast as any gun, the difference is that you can hold the button and steer the beam if you miss. It's an extremely rapid firing machine gun.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That was a limitation of the effects not the weapon. Beam phasers are (or should be) as fast as any gun, the difference is that you can hold the button and steer the beam if you miss. It's a very fast firing machine gun.

How often did we see people do that during TNG era or even the TNG era movies?

Can they technically do it, yes VERY easily; is it worth the VFX budget to make it happen for a simple Person to Person fire fight?

That's a harder financial calculus that is beyond my pay grade.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, I know, that can be fixed if the production designers wanted to.

They don't.

 

[thribs]

So only 8 years until the STO look; with the bright white and black colour scheme

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

They don't.

I noticed, it sucks, I want them to change it.

But hey, that's me, basing things on logic & common sense.

Even DISCO had Body Armor for tactical situations in the 23rd century and 32nd century.

 

[fireproof78]

I noticed, it sucks, I want them to change it.

But hey, that's me, basing things on logic & common sense.

Even DISCO had Body Armor for tactical situations in the 23rd century and 32nd century.

I hope they change it. Body armor as far as design can be quite creative. I will not hold my breath nor does it take away from the show.

Body armor in Star Trek has had limited effectiveness. Even Klingon armor only stopped one shot before being fatal in TNG.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Well, they DID have armor of a sort on Mars. There was no real opportunity to see it in use otherwise in the first season, so there may still be a chance yet. No excuse for security NOT to be wearing it as the standard, though.

The TOS Movie-era armor WAS technically long-lived, having been seen in the first and sixth films (and at couple times in between), which account for some twenty years of time. Then... Budget cuts? Until the occasional use of newer armor in later seasons of DS9?

Mark

 

[fireproof78]

No excuse for security NOT to be wearing it as the standard, though

I mean, I'm sure there is an excuse. But, it is unfortunately that it rarely gets used.

But, Starfleet is generally terrible with tactics.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Body armor in Star Trek has had limited effectiveness. Even Klingon armor only stopped one shot before being fatal in TNG.

That's one more than wearing nothing and dying on the first hit.

I don't know if you know this: but IRL Level 4 NIJ Body Armor only has to take 1-2 hits in the same area from the highest Energy Caliber of Bullet from the length of barrel that it's rated for. Any ability to take multiple hits after that is gravy.

So, that's literally inline with IRL Body Armor specifications.

I mean, I'm sure there is an excuse. But, it is unfortunately that it rarely gets used.

But, Starfleet is generally terrible with tactics.

They can hire consultants to fix that.

They did it with ST:ENT when they got people who knew how to do Fire Fights properly in film, based on IRL tactics

 

[fireproof78]

That's one more than wearing nothing and dying on the first hit.

I don't know if you know this: but IRL Level 4 NIJ Body Armor only has to take 1-2 hits in the same area from the highest Energy Caliber of Bullet from the length of barrel that it's rated for. Any ability to take multiple hits after that is gravy.

So, that's literally inline with IRL Body Armor specifications.

So, the 24th century should be just like 21st century body armor. Good to know.

They can hire consultants to fix that.

They did it with ST:ENT when they got people who knew how to do Fire Fights properly in film, based on IRL tactics

Good for them. Why no go rehire the ST: ENT crew to do that again? I'm sure they will make the right Trek choices.

Hell, my uncle would do the consulting for nearly free. They don't want to do it, most consultants are ignored, so I will not hold by breath that actual tactics will be used, just like armor, no matter how cool, will fail.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

So, the 24th century should be just like 21st century body armor. Good to know.

The 24th century should be BETTER than the 21st century.

The Body Armor should be a "Last Layer" of defense, Multiple Layers of Personal Shields running on Batteries should exist per person.

The average person should be able to take more hits than 1-2 hits.

That's just pathetic level tech.

Good for them. Why no go rehire the ST: ENT crew to do that again? I'm sure they will make the right Trek choices.

I'm sure there are better people who can do fire fights now.

Hell, my uncle would do the consulting for nearly free. They don't want to do it, most consultants are ignored, so I will not hold by breath that actual tactics will be used, just like armor, no matter how cool, will fail.

That's nice, I'm sure if the DISCO / Picard crew wanted to hire accurate tactics, they would've.

But they don't seem to care.

They'd rather have "Storm Trooper" like Red/Yellow Shirts sent out to die like lemmings.

 

[fireproof78]

The 24th century should be BETTER than the 21st century.

You just said it was consistent with 21st century body armor to take two hits. Now it should be better?

I'm sure there are better people who can do fire fights now.

I know a couple.

They'd rather have "Storm Trooper" like Red/Yellow Shirts sent out to die like lemmings.

It's worked the last 50 years.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You just said it was consistent with 21st century body armor to take two hits. Now it should be better?

You should always strive for better. Body Armor is just one layer of defense, having more layers is better, including personal shielding. Worf was able to makeshift one with a Commbadge and Power Cell. StarFleet had Personal Shields in the Voyager FPS games in the early 2000's. I'm sure if they wanted to, they can portray StarFleet to be competent & caring about their officers and not send them into danger ill equiped.

I know a couple.

Good for you.

It's worked the last 50 years.

And it's gotten stale. The High Mark for what makes a good "Fire Fight" has been raised by other media.

Star Trek should strive to do better at all aspects of anything it does.

Be it from court-room trials, speeches, fire fights, starship combat, romance, sex, etc.

Don't strive to be average, strive to do far better. Strive to set new highs so others can top it eventually.

 

[fireproof78]

Don't strive to be average, strive to do far better. Strive to set new highs so others can top it eventually.

New heights are not rewarded. Mediocrity is.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

New heights are not rewarded. Mediocrity is.

You really believe in that?