ST Nemesis: Fresh Outta Transporters

[Beam Brain]

I am probably one of the few who actually liked Nemesis. Sure it wasn't the best but the battle scene at the end was unprecedented save TWOK.

I liked the fact that they finally did something that involved the Romulans. I was Klingoned out after past movies. But so much was way off.

• The ENTIRE Romulan government wiped out? Did the people support that?
• Oooh! A new substance from the makers of trilithium; we now have thaleron! LOL.
• Mind sex....... That was really bad!
• B4 should have been an AT (after thought). And how can they detect from light years away a tiny positronic signature? He is hacked into pieces.
• A dune buggy? I do like Data's narrative about Picard's driving.
• Scorpion Class: So the Romulans use an earth animal to describe a ship?

The Battle: 1 shot takes out the warp drive..... Now that is a good flagship! NOT!

• Enterprise crashing into the Scimitar? Loved it!
• Romulans show up to take over: "we're dead in the water" happened pretty quick. So much for that Romulan Ale. LAME.
• Data's sacrifice at the end... really stupid and unnecessary,

The transporter issue at the end was one of those yougottabekiddingme moments.
Data: The transporters conveniently failed after sending Picard, so I'm going to leap across space to get to Shinzon's ship.
Geordi: What about the transporters in the shuttles?
Data: Shut up.
Geordi: What about the Captain's Yacht?
Shut up.
Geordi: Why didn't we just send a bomb instead of Picard?
Data: Shut up.
Geordi: What about the transporters in the cargo bays? They're independent units, remember?
Data: What part of "shut up" do you not understand? This is my big heroic exit since we are killing the franchise!"

But I loved then space battle........

 

[trekshark]

The transporter thing did always bug me. Shuttles have been shown to have transporters multiple times prior to this.

 

[Vger23]

With regard to the warp drive being taken out in one shot....I don't have an issue with that. The Scimitar was trailing the Enterprise under cloak for an extended period of time. They had the opportunity to target disruptors and coordinate shots very specifically to cripple the Enterprise's propulsion system. Remember that the Reliant, given the same opportunity to carefully target the warp engines in TWOK, essentially accomplished the same thing.

In my mind, one of the great "plot holes" in Nemesis is just how did Shinzon find the resources to construct a warship as advanced and as imposing as the Scimitar in absolute secrecy? I'm assuming he had Romulan military collaborators who funded him, etc and were later part of the coup?

The other big no-no is that after the Enterprise rams the Scimitar...and Shinzon orders "full reverse..." the two ships should not separate. The Enterprise would simply be dragged forward with the Scimitar. There's nothing holding on to it that would allow the separation that is depicted in the film.

With regard to "Scorpion Class..." I always assumed that was the Federation designation for the fighters.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

In my mind, one of the great "plot holes" in Nemesis is just how did Shinzon find the resources to construct a warship as advanced and as imposing as the Scimitar in absolute secrecy? I'm assuming he had Romulan military collaborators who funded him, etc and were later part of the coup?

I believe the that Remus is where the Romulan shipyards were. They used the Remans as slaves to mine dilithium, build their war ships and as cannon fodder in their battles. Shinzon getting the latest Romulan R&D to build his own ship; unbeknownst to the Romulan Senator and Praetor, I could believe. The more extremist factions of the Romulan military had been chomping at the bit for war with the Federation for decades at that point. With how casually the collaborators assassinated their own government in the opening of NEM. The Romulan overseers turning a blind eye to a proven commander like Shinzon is believable.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

In my mind, one of the great "plot holes" in Nemesis is just how did Shinzon find the resources to construct a warship as advanced and as imposing as the Scimitar in absolute secrecy? .

He teamed up with Admiral Marcus...

 

[fireproof78]

Scorpion Class: So the Romulans use an earth animal to describe a ship?

Why not? It might have sounded cool to their ears and they wanted to keep it. I don't know if this counts as "way off" other than looking for stuff to add to the list

The ENTIRE Romulan government wiped out? Did the people support that?

Why would the people care? Honestly, one of the best way to make a coup work is through support by the military or a large section of it. Which is exactly what Shinzon is shown to have, and that he had made explicit promises to the military's that he was negligent in keeping.

 

[Commander Troi]

But if they remembered the other transporters, we wouldn't have believed that an android could fly!

(Actual Superman jokes were made on either side of me in the theater. )

 

[Vger23]

He teamed up with Admiral Marcus...

That wins this thread. Well played.....

 

[Jeyl]

One gripe.

The film establishes that the Remans don't like bright lights, both visually and in exposition. No one thought to turn the lights on super bright on the Enterprise when they invaded. A setup with no payoff = wasted time.

 

[Timo]

"All" the transporters failing is probably just an extension of the very first time they fail, in "Enemy Within". Despite there being dozens of pads and whatnot, a central resource may still be lost to render them all useless. And here it would be natural to assume the resource was targeting: they were in a murky nebula-thing, and both starship units (and cargo units, which never were "independent" in any episode) and the units of onboard shuttles would be blind if Nero knocked out the exact right doodads.

A tiny little button thing then saving the day makes good sense in this scenario. It would simply be a beacon, the TNG equivalent of the subcutaneous transponders of "Patterns of Force", and a very much compacted version of those tubes-on-tripods enhancers seen in many shows. In other words, a regular James Bond gadget a piece of tech unrealistically (or perhaps just anachronistically) compacted for hero use. Pretty much like the commbadges of S31 agents in the 2250s when others had to rely on fliptop lumps of metal still.

What makes no real sense in the Bassen Rift fight is the tactical role of the nebula. The writers thought themselves clever to have Nero attack when Picard is shrouded in mist and unable to communicate. But this is not so: if Picard were to communicate anything, he would already have done so long, long ago. And indeed he did, so that there is a Starfleet task force waiting for him. And since that force is waiting, it makes no difference whether Picard belatedly calls for help or not: the fleet obviously has some reason X for waiting, and that reason won't go away with Picard's SOS because it hasn't done so already.

Nero building his ship in a secret base is a no-brainer. What self-respecting Romulan would have his ship built in a public base? Or fail to use Remans to build it? Nero is talking out of his ass in that scene anyway, wanting to convince Picard that he is the benevolent Spartacus when he very much is not. Talking about secret bases distances him from Romulans, to whom he in fact is but a puppet.

Wiping out the entire Romulan Senate probably happens every third full Remus anyway. From day one, the Romulans have been described as dishonorable backstabbers, and their government appears stable enough in face of assassinations in several DS9 adventures. For that matter, Reman revolts probably are frequent as well, and it's just the part where the Spartacus is allowed to become the new Praetor (even if only with the blessing of the Romulan military) that's all-new to this one.

The other big no-no is that after the Enterprise rams the Scimitar...and Shinzon orders "full reverse..." the two ships should not separate. The Enterprise would simply be dragged forward with the Scimitar. There's nothing holding on to it that would allow the separation that is depicted in the film.

Wrong. By conventional Newtonian physics, inertia holds the Enterprise. So nothing incorrect with that scene in this respect.

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with the treknology of this movie. It's just such a dismal failure on the character of the main villain. The key thing about him is that he stalls. It determines the outcome of pretty much everything: it makes possible for Picard to escape, it makes possible for Picard to survive the starship fight, it makes possible for the heroes to ultimately stop the ticking thalaron bomb. And to what gain? It nearly kills Shinzon before a well-placed ornament usurps that task.

We never get a single motivation for the stalling. It's not said to be death wish. It's not said to be in hopes of having X happen first. It's not said to be because Shinzon is unwilling to undergo the treatment and become Picard for real.

Any and all of those could have been stated as the motivation for the villain to stall. None ever were. Heck, the idea of Shinzon making Picard wait for X hours after arrival is sound as such, but already requires an explicit rationale when we learn Shinzon really is in a literal life-and-death hurry. And then the writers unthinkingly decide that X=17! Just imagine that. Why would Picard wait for seventeen hours? Two he might. At three, he would definitely leave in a huff, or feign to. He has never been that passive in his life.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

The other big no-no is that after the Enterprise rams the Scimitar...and Shinzon orders "full reverse..." the two ships should not separate. The Enterprise would simply be dragged forward with the Scimitar. There's nothing holding on to it that would allow the separation that is depicted in the film.

Inertia. The Enterprise has inertia and a directional vector that must overcome. Being partially jammed into the other ship doesn't mean they're bolted together, so if the Scimitar accelerates away with more energy than the tangled bits of the ship can withstand, they're gonna rip apart. Sure, the Enterprise is not going to be totally unaffected, but they're still gonna pull apart.

 

[Jedman67]

Haha I remember all these plotholes.
The dune buggy I could live with, hey it's fun right?
B4 was a stretch, certainly.
They wanted to kill off Data but be able to backdoor him back to life, B4 was born.
Shinzon overthrowing the Romulan government? The Romulan senate hasn't had a coup detat in at least 4 or 5 years. Unprecedented lol.

The transporters? Yeah, fine, I accept this. Bad writing. Would have worked well in an episode (well, not "well" but you know what I mean) but in a 2 hour movie all the ships transporters, and the shuttle transporters are all out? That's a stretch.
That's a big failing of Star Trek, episodes conveniently forgetting about shuttles when just having one flying around would solve The Crisis Of The Day and pulling out shuttles to Save The Day when needed.
3/5 stars for me, a massively fun Star Trek installment with enough plotholes to embarrass the NYC Dept of Transportation.

Much like:
TMP
TSFS
TVH
TFF
TUC
INS
ST09
STID
STB

 

[Jedman67]

Oh, I forgot about Data's emergency single use transporter introduced in this movie and never heard from again, and which contradicts everything known about transporters.
I can headcanon it as a transponder of sorts that latches onto the nearest functioning transporter system rather than a self-contained transporter unit, but that's really not how it's explained in the movie.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Nemesis is a f^cking missed opportunity to have Picard face himself, a clone who claimed he knew every action or decision he would've done. There's nothing more satisfying, which I strongly believed would've save that steaming pile, if Picard took clone Picard at his word and challenge him by performing the "Picard maneuver". Ramming the ugly Enterprise was a cop out and was boring, but I believe if Picard did his maneuver, and the Digital Domain guys would have had done it right, it would've been a crowd pleaser, whatever crowd was left who watched that flatline of a movie.

 

[DonIago]

No comments about Picard being bald as a kid in this film when "Tapestry" clearly showed he had a glorious head of hair?

Maybe he went through a phase when he was younger...or was wearing a wig...

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Or maybe he shaved his head when he started going bald.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I recall Patrick Stewart saying in an interview that he started going bald at either age 19 or 21. He started shaving his head ever since.

 

[DonIago]

I recall Patrick Stewart saying in an interview that he started going bald at either age 19 or 21. He started shaving his head ever since.

I read the part about his going bald pretty early in life. I don't recall the part about shaving his head, but it was in something I read 20 years ago or so, so it's entirely possible and would track.

 

[fireproof78]

No comments about Picard being bald as a kid in this film when "Tapestry" clearly showed he had a glorious head of hair?

Nope. Shaving your head is a technology we can do nowadays and he could probably have grown it back later on in his Academy career.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Or maybe he shaved his head when he started going bald.

Or maybe, he was a victim of hazing; its quite common in fraternities.