Spocks Kobayashi Maru

[M'Sharak]

^ Still, it is established later in that movie that Spock had never attempted the Kobayashi Maru simulation himself. In the alt-universe, it could be the same story, or he might have taken a different version of the simulation during his own time as an Academy undergrad. Which one it is doesn't appear to be a crucial point in the story told by this movie, and even the fact that Spock is the test's programmer here is only of tangential importance; by the time McCoy and Kirk reach Sick Bay on the Enterprise, it's already served its narrative purpose and faded into near-irrelevance.

 

[Ronson2k10]

The Federation or United Federation of Planets really isn't the armada it's group of planets. A UN if you like. You're right though Pike did say Federation and not Star Fleet. Kirk by virtue of being on earth is a member of the federation so he doesn't need to join. I think either the line was wrong or the actor made a blooper.

There are many possible solutions or directions the 'Captain' can go during the simulation. Many of which were in this case closed off to him/her. The only decisions left are tactical. Can they get in rescue the crew of the KM and get out without getting killed? Unless disobeying an order from Star Fleet is an option and perhaps is in this test?

Unfortunately we didn't get to see him fail the test (perhaps once would have been pretty cool). As we all know what he told Saavik and Spock in TWOK. That failure could have brought about the entire logic of that scene/next time taking the test. You really can't fail a test of character though. As you were saying it's a matter of what you have in you not what you can learn. A failure perhaps could only come from avoiding the question in this case. As everyone is calling it a no-win-scenario there is no correct answer.

I would have loved to see some of the ingenuity he may have exercised prior to his rigging of the test. I would think out of sheer frustration not the need to satisfy others.

I was just at a loss as to why they would cut way down on the possible solutions by ordering him to make the rescue? I'm probably nit picking but I was hoping for a bit more from that scene.

 

[JarodRussell]

Anybody figured that Spock never took the test because he wears science blue, not command gold?

 

[M'Sharak]

Anybody figured that Spock never took the test because he wears science blue, not command gold?

Yup, that thought had crossed my mind, as I'm sure it did many people's. "The Galileo Seven" also seems to lend weight to that thinking.

This alt-reality Spock, on the other hand, seems to be no stranger to command, so it's still pretty much a toss-up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Anybody figured that Spock never took the test because he wears science blue, not command gold?

Yup, that thought had crossed my mind, as I'm sure it did many people's. "The Galileo Seven" also seems to lend weight to that thinking.

This alt-reality Spock, on the other hand, seems to be no stranger to command, so it's still pretty much a toss-up.

But he did wear command gold in WNMHGB and as XO probably took some sort of command training. Perhaps officers from other departments who transfer into command or are given a command position take a different test.

 

[M'Sharak]

Anybody figured that Spock never took the test because he wears science blue, not command gold?

Yup, that thought had crossed my mind, as I'm sure it did many people's. "The Galileo Seven" also seems to lend weight to that thinking.

This alt-reality Spock, on the other hand, seems to be no stranger to command, so it's still pretty much a toss-up.

But he did wear command gold in WNMHGB and as XO probably took some sort of command training. Perhaps officers from other departments who transfer into command or are given a command position take a different test.

Something akin to the Starfleet bridge officer examination seen in TNG?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yup, that thought had crossed my mind, as I'm sure it did many people's. "The Galileo Seven" also seems to lend weight to that thinking.

This alt-reality Spock, on the other hand, seems to be no stranger to command, so it's still pretty much a toss-up.

But he did wear command gold in WNMHGB and as XO probably took some sort of command training. Perhaps officers from other departments who transfer into command or are given a command position take a different test.

Something akin to the Starfleet bridge officer examination seen in TNG?

Probably. More extensive than that to be an XO I hope.

 

[Ronson2k10]

Spock has never sought command as this would break up the trio. From his standpoint he has no ego (vulcan half I'm sure). In the new trek though he is offended by Pike offering the job to Kirk. So he does have an ego - so far. I do think though that all bridge officers would need to take the test at some point. As they could be called into command at some point.

Kirk does go from Cadet to Captain in several days though not all of which he was aboard ship. But I'm sliding off point here. I think that of all people if the test was made before he was a cadet then in order for him to 'write' it he would need to experience it. If not during his training then after he was assigned the task.

If I were Kirk and was confronted with the accusation of cheating. I would want to know what Spock did during his test? If he had taken it and if he would be compelled to answer? At the time of Kirks arrival at SFA Spock was already a graduate.

Oh I do think that the TNG episode where Riker is asked to take the War Game test had it's moments but they were spoiled by the Ferengi getting in the way. It was a straight tactical simulation. If remember correctly Wesley cheated by bringing the Dylithiom chrystal (from his experiment on the Enterprise) to the some what tub of a ship Riker was commanding. So the KM is lost in the land of TNG... ??

 

[Timo]

As long as we talk about blueshirts doing command jobs, let's remember Captain Robau from this very movie...

(Or should we perhaps argue that the three colors are rotated every once in a while in the UFP Starfleet, so that the command color is gold in TOS but red in TNG and blue in the 2230s, thus explaining why both Robau and George Kirk wear blue?)

When the no-win scenario test was introduced in ST2, it was made clear that it was optional and (at least for Saavik) postgraduate, and that it had been a fixture of Starfleet training for at least the past few decades. TNG was the first show to deal with the issue of Starfleet (undergraduate) training, when Wesley applied for the Academy; he was shown confronting such make-believe scenarios in his entry exams already, supporting the idea that Starfleet still believes in this sort of testing/training in the 24th century. But Wesley never reached the circumstances where Kirk or Saavik took their respective no-win scenario tests. DS9 gave us Nog, who did graduate, but again (AFAWK) without reaching the Kirk or Saavik phase because he was expedited through the training to supply the front lines of a major war.

STXI, then, is really the first instance of Trek returning to the themes of ST2. That the test is optional is again supported: McCoy isn't taking it. It would be weird to put him in the center seat once he has already acted as "supporting extra" to Kirk's test. That the test is postgraduate is not supported - but if it's optional, one may argue that one indeed only takes it when aiming for command, and some (like Kirk and nuKirk) know their aimpoint during undergraduate training already while others (like Saavik) only decide later on.

So, did nuSpock take the test or not? Based on the above, there's no telling. It really is optional, one can return to it later on, and it mutates over time (indeed, perhaps only the specific variant designed by nuSpock involves a ship named Kobayashi Maru, and Kirk in ST2 picked that one for nostalgic reasons). As the point of the test is not passing vs. failing, but rather wading through and learning, nuSpock could easily have taken it and "lost" without feeling dissatisfied with the result - thus leaving Kirk as the first one to "win".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronson2k10]

I don't see how his tenure as star fleet officer would preclude Spock from taking the test. As like another poster was saying the could be a prelude to command and therefore needed only if you are seeking such a position. He may not of have 'needed' the test as a cadet accept that he does hold a command rank despite him not wanting a command position. So the test could have been a means to an end in that he wants to be science officer and holding that position requires him to be of command rank and that requires him to take the test. As many times we are/were required to take subjects and tests that are outside our chosen discipline in preparation for all that chosen discipline involves.

It is true though the test could evolve from the one Kirk took to the one Saavik had taken. Perhaps starting out as a tactical exercise and ending up as a test of character. Students may have over time passed the tactical knowledge on to other students and there by made the test weaker and weaker requiring more thought would be the logical course for the test to evolve to.

When I started this post I didn't think I would get so deep into it hehe. I do love the scenario though. Much like a game of chess when you only have 3 pieces left.

 

[Neumann]

Sorry guys but in Star Trek (2009) there is no such think as a Neutral Zone, the Neutral Zone was imposed by the organians by the end of Errand of mercy. In the movie probably the ship just drifted a few km into Klingon territory or they are just violating the border in a skirmish and you must duke it out like a man.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sorry guys but in Star Trek (2009) there is no such think as a Neutral Zone, the Neutral Zone was imposed by the organians by the end of Errand of mercy. In the movie probably the ship just drifted a few km into Klingon territory or they are just violating the border in a skirmish and you must duke it out like a man.

No, it wasn't.

 

[M'Sharak]

Sorry guys but in Star Trek (2009) there is no such think as a Neutral Zone, the Neutral Zone was imposed by the organians by the end of Errand of mercy. In the movie probably the ship just drifted a few km into Klingon territory or they are just violating the border in a skirmish and you must duke it out like a man.

The Prime-verse Klingon neutral zone's time of origin and reasons for existing are unclear--unless I'm mistaken, they are never specified on screen--and any direct connection to the Organians or to the Organian Peace Treaty is speculative, though a couple of the novels would appear to have gone further.

The name Klingon Neutral Zone was never mentioned on-screen. The nature of the "neutral zone" mentioned in contexts involving Klingons is unclear. A separate Klingon Neutral Zone, from the Romulan Neutral Zone, may have been created by the Treaty of Organia, and eliminated by the Khitomer Accords. Kirk's statement would suggest there was in fact a separate zone, as the Romulan Neutral Zone remained effective even after the Accords.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Neutral_zone

As for the Klingon neutral zone's alt-verse analogue: its date of establishment and reasons for being are also unspecified, but the fact that the neutral zone is mentioned twice in dialogue is a pretty strong indication that it does, in fact, exist.