Spock gets an autobiography!

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by golddragon71, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Once there is something New Now will have become Then and we can remember the good old times when Discovery premiered and not the shit show that is Star Trek: Picard Is Really Old Now (PIRON for short). Then Star Trek: Sisko is back too! And DS9 will be getting a Blue Ray release (SIBT!ADWBGABBR at this point we'll abandon achronyms for good) premieres and everyone thinks fondly of PIRON.

    But seriously, I'd expect Discovery to get more love once the Picard show arrives. At least a little bit.
     
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  2. golddragon71

    golddragon71 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Spock's wife is going to be an interesting reveal. When Picard mentioned Spock's wedding in Sarek, I think we all just assumed that Spock and Saavik got married. However, after reading Picard's Autobio, we find that Spock's bride was human. that totally changes thescenario and we're left with a mystery. I thought at first it might be Leila Kolami from "This Side of Paradise". However after I I thought about it, I realized that Spock's going into Kolinahr would have pretty much killed that relationship. (On the other hand maybe a breakup between Leila and Spock is what prompted him to pursue Kolinahr in the first place.)
     
  3. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know the author has suggested in his Picard book that it was Spock but in the episode it's never established.

    Given we know that Spock has at least one 'sister' - who's to say Spock didn't gain a few more brothers in the interim period between TOS movies and the TNG time-period?
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He never actually mentioned the name of the son.

    For all we know Sarek had more kids after Amanda died.
     
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  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Or before. Sarek and Amanda could have a passel of kids we've yet to meet.
     
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  6. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I just thought we were doing the videotape scene in Spaceballs.
     
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  7. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Ah shit, I wasn't consciously thinking of that, but it probably influenced my post in some way. Anyway, this is pretty embarassing.

    If you won't mind I'll accelerate my computer to ludicrous speed to get away from this thread. Good day, sir!
     
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  8. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He actually mentioned it a bit sooner than "Journey to Babel." In "This Side of Paradise" (also written by D.C. Fontana), Spock mentions his parents' occupations when Kirk is taunting him, although he's still referring to them in the past tense:
    So Kirk maybe shouldn't have been quite so shocked when Spock revealed that Sarek the Vulcan Ambassador was his father the next season. ;)

    It's interesting how Spock's references to his parents get gradually less vague as TOS goes on. In WNMHGB, he says that "one of my ancestors married a human female." In "The Corbomite Maneuver," we get this exchange:
    Notice that both of his parents are referred to in the past tense.

    "Mudd's Women" had Harry Mudd recognize Spock as "half-Vulcanian" somehow, presumably because full Vulcanians looked noticeably different than Spock (perhaps they were closer in appearance to the fake Balok puppet?). This exchange of course didn't make as much sense once it was shown that full Vulcans look more or less the same as Mr. Spock.

    The next episode, "The Enemy Within," reinforced that Spock was half-human and half-Vulcan:
    In "The Naked Time," Spock says:
    So they nailed down that his father was Vulcan and that his mother was human, but they were still referred to in the past tense, presumably dead.

    In "The Squire of Gothos," Spock refers to his father in the present tense for the first time:
    Then the parents' occupations are nailed down in "This Side of Paradise," late in the first season.

    AFAIK, "Amok Time" didn't make any reference to Spock's parents, outside of the mention of them arranging his marriage to T'Pring as a child. The fact that we didn't see them in the episode is perhaps another indicator that the TOS writing staff regarded them as dead at this point in time.

    And at the beginning of "Journey to Babel," Kirk apparently knows that Spock's parents are alive:
    I guess by this point, Kirk had just accepted that Spock was an extremely private person, and didn't pry into his personal history very much. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  9. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Commander Red Shirt

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    I get the feeling that his wife's name will be avoided. Addressed by euphemisms such as "I was married at this point to an individual whose name is a matter of public record and the ceremony was much reported at the time and caused some controversy".
     
  10. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I doubt it. I think Goodman was having fun playing coy about the identity of Spock's wife in his previous books as a teaser of sorts. It's easy to sustain an unnamed character for a scene or two, but for an entire book? I just don't see it.
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, his wife would be way to big a part of his life to just brush off in a book like this. Unless of course, it was a very short marriage.
     
  12. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    “In a moment of weakness, I married a woman I had only met hours before on Risa. Why I did this, It is a thing no out-worlder may know except those very few who have been involved. A Vulcan understands, but even we do not speak of it among ourselves. It is a deeply personal thing. Can you see that, Reader,and understand?”
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Oh, and by the way, my father met a young Jean-Luc Picard at my wedding, who grinned at him as only humans could think was appropriate."
     
  14. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Why on Earth would you assume Spock would marry his adopted daughter?
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Whatever gave you the idea that Saavik was his adopted daughter? She was his protegee. If anything, several novels and comics depict her as Sarek and Amanda's foster daughter, but during Spock's post-TMP tenure on the Enterprise, of course, so that they never lived together as siblings. Although in the first detailed depiction of her origin, The Pandora Principle, Spock spent a year on leave teaching the feral Saavik civilized behavior, then left her with an unspecified foster family.

    It may seem odd for characters who are technically foster siblings to become romantically involved, but it's happened before in fiction -- e.g. Steve Austin and Jaime Sommers in the '70s bionic shows, or Barry Allen and Iris West in The CW's The Flash.
     
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  16. captainmkb

    captainmkb Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i mean, there's also a novel (from a series that doesnt share continuity with these Autobiographies) that depicts their bonding so it is a version of the story that's more than an assumption at this point
     
  17. ThetaSigma

    ThetaSigma Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Hell to be honest I was always under the impression that his wife was dead by the time of TNG. given that when he shows up on Romulus they asks Jean Luc to go after him and Picard decides to ask his Dad if he knows anything despite being at his wedding, nor does he ask the Admiral if his wife has said anything or been taken into custody/brought in for questioning. All of which lead to suspect he married a human who has since died, whether that’s Christine Chapel/Nyota Uhura/Leila Kalomi etc.

    Whoever he married is clearly out of the picture by TNG
     
  18. theta_campanile

    theta_campanile Ensign Red Shirt

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    It's depicted in multiple sources that they have a romantic relationship which in stories like Vulcan's Heart (and stories referencing it) becomes a marriage. A lot of people find it easier to accept because of star trek III's pon farr sequence. Others are weirded out by it as they read their relationship in a father-daughter light as you do and me too! But it's a fair assumption to make, even if it's not one you or I are comfortable with and put in our headcanons.
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The idea of Spock and Saavik as "father and daughter" is very surprising to me. If anything, they're more like Henry Higgins and Eliza Doolittle -- who, I believe, did end up as a romantic couple. Or the Doctor and Leela, which wasn't romantic but certainly wasn't parental.
     
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  20. theta_campanile

    theta_campanile Ensign Red Shirt

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    Personally, I read it that way because I enjoy it being Spock's different approach to legacy. McCoy has Joanna, Kirk has David and Spock has someone who he (in the Pandora Principle) defends and gives the care they deserve whilst helping deal with their mixed heritage. It is both what he didn't get and is a nice culmination of all of Spock's growth from TOS to the TMP era in the same way David represents Kirk's pattern of abandonment. Likewise in TWOK she's presented along with David as part of the next generation as our main cast are now no longer in their prime. David is explicitly Kirk's son but I don't think it's too much of a leap to see Saavik in TWOK as occupying the role of Spock's (figurative, not literal) daughter type figure. So that's why I prefer to read it as like a father-daughter relationship. I think there are obviously elements which complicate that reading, i.e: being taken in by Amanda and Sarek but I don't think that breaks it so much as adds a different dynamic which doesn't erase the father-daughter one. They're father/daughter/mentor/protege/distant brother/distant sister/spock/saavik.

    I don't think your interpretation is invalid at all mind and is even validated with the events of III and the scrapped pregnancy plot in IV. I headcanon around those points, especially the latter, but regardless my reading requires prioritisng certain sources and even then certain aspects of certain sources. And if someone has the Vulcan's Heart books in their headcaon as their most beloved book then it's pretty much a moot point, but that is part of the fun of varying headcanons and making your own continuity in your head.

    I would also add that it does become creepier given Spock found Saavik as a child and there's a vast age gap. For some this is something they can deal with and rationalise if they do mind it (it's vulcans they're different etc). For some they can't. Whilst I prefer reading the Saavik-Spock relationship as, in part, a father-daughter relationship for the artistic reasons mentioned above, I'd be lying if I didn't say that wasn't also an incentive. It also differentiates it from the Doctor and Leela, but even then I've been uncomfortable with the Doctor and younger humans (i.e: 19 year old Rose) having a relationship but given this is not a who forum and we've already got two thetas in this thread perhaps we should avoid who before it's overrun by us whovians :lol: