G
Garrovick
Guest
Could the Automated Transfer Vehicle (ATV) be sent to the Moon. Like either precede or follow a space craft with additional supplies? How about launched in advance to orbit Mars.
Space truck set for maiden voyage
- Thread starter flux_29
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GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Well it was designed to take tones of cargo into orbit, so if they added more mowefull engines and found a rocket that can lift more than the arriane 5 (about 20 tonnes - thats ATV + rocket), then i suppose it be sent on a one-way mission to the moon carrying equipment needed to start building the foundations of a moon base and the ATV itself could be canabilzed for parts aswell.
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ATV + max cargo = a bit over 29,000 KG
Apollo CSM/ LM = a bit over 45,000 KG
It's not a matter of putting bigger engines on the ATV, you'd need a launch vehicle that's a bit more than half as beefy as a Saturn V.
The Saturn V had a thrust of 34,030.000 kN, the Ariane 5 used by the ATV has 11,400.000 kN, not nearly enough to get to the moon.
The Delta V Heavy has a thrust of 8,670.000 kN, so it could probably lob an ATV with a full load moonward... and beyond.
AH
Apollo CSM/ LM = a bit over 45,000 KG
It's not a matter of putting bigger engines on the ATV, you'd need a launch vehicle that's a bit more than half as beefy as a Saturn V.
The Saturn V had a thrust of 34,030.000 kN, the Ariane 5 used by the ATV has 11,400.000 kN, not nearly enough to get to the moon.
The Delta V Heavy has a thrust of 8,670.000 kN, so it could probably lob an ATV with a full load moonward... and beyond.
AH
Really? Lol I assumed that it was either good or bye since Auf Wiedersehen means good bye.
better call Dennis Hopper
The fun thing about the ATV is that she's capable of intricate rendezvous and docking maneuvers. So basically one could use multiple copies of her, all launched on separate Ariane 5s, to quickly assemble and fuel a craft that goes to the moon and back. She would be a perfect fuel truck for such a mission, one remniscent of the original Soyuz moonflight plans.
Once you get the fuel up from Earth to the orbit, going to the moon can be achieved with the flimsiest of craft. Say, another ATV with the payload area converted to two thirds fuel tank, one third payload. A purpose-built LEO/moon shuttle would probably be much more sensible, but the ATV could supply the fuel.
That is, until somebody builds a cheaper and simpler automated fuel truck, which is what we're going to need eventually anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, yes and no. As it stands, the CEV they're building for the lunar missions will carry everything four astronauts need to get there and back. In the Apollo days, one astronaut had to stay in lunar orbit while his two crewmates got to stretch their legs; not so this time, where EVERYONE gets time on the surface and the CEV remains untended in orbit, run from the ground directly and via relay satelites.
Anyway, the ATV certainly has the building blocks for a lunar transfer vehicle, but they'll more than likely just build an all-cargo version of the as-yet-uncontracted "Altair" lunar landers. As with getting stuff to Earth orbit and back, getting stuff to LAND on the moon is a whole other fat turkey. What with budgets being as they are, I feel that they'll just adapt the one plan they don't yet have for the Altairs for a one-way trip with extra cargo.
Mark
Anyway, the ATV certainly has the building blocks for a lunar transfer vehicle, but they'll more than likely just build an all-cargo version of the as-yet-uncontracted "Altair" lunar landers. As with getting stuff to Earth orbit and back, getting stuff to LAND on the moon is a whole other fat turkey. What with budgets being as they are, I feel that they'll just adapt the one plan they don't yet have for the Altairs for a one-way trip with extra cargo.
Mark
Ok, here's what made the TLI burn for the Apollo flights (again, remember that the Apollo stack was roughly twice the mass of the ATV so gut the figures in half, I think. Hell for all I know about orbital mechanics, you need wrenches to do it!):
Thrust (vac): 1,031.600 kN (231,913 lbf). Isp: 421 sec. Burn time: 475 sec. Isp(sl): 200 sec.
The largest amount of thrust I've seen anywhere that the ATV itself can produce is 8.89 kN max, 2 kN nominal, which is just dandy for orbital manuvering, but to hit the speeds needed for TLI, you're talking a *really* long burn time! Granted, I did minutes of research to find the thrust figures for the ATV, but given its mainline job, big thrust dosen't seem likely because that's the job of the Ariane.
I think the ATV could be pushed hthere by something else, but a bunch of ATVs assembling into a Gigantor ATV and flying moonward dosen't look too likely to me. The ATV would need a yet-to-be developed additional booster launched with it or attached in orbit.
Another hurdle to deep space sorties in the ATV would be that the current ATV navigation system is GPS based. I don't think that would work very well out past the Clark Belt...
If such boosters did exist, and other hardware upgrades implemented, the ATV could become an important part of the logistical chain for moon voyages or even further into the void.
AG, eyewitness to 1 Saturn V and 1 Saturn 1B launch!
Thrust (vac): 1,031.600 kN (231,913 lbf). Isp: 421 sec. Burn time: 475 sec. Isp(sl): 200 sec.
The largest amount of thrust I've seen anywhere that the ATV itself can produce is 8.89 kN max, 2 kN nominal, which is just dandy for orbital manuvering, but to hit the speeds needed for TLI, you're talking a *really* long burn time! Granted, I did minutes of research to find the thrust figures for the ATV, but given its mainline job, big thrust dosen't seem likely because that's the job of the Ariane.
I think the ATV could be pushed hthere by something else, but a bunch of ATVs assembling into a Gigantor ATV and flying moonward dosen't look too likely to me. The ATV would need a yet-to-be developed additional booster launched with it or attached in orbit.
Another hurdle to deep space sorties in the ATV would be that the current ATV navigation system is GPS based. I don't think that would work very well out past the Clark Belt...
If such boosters did exist, and other hardware upgrades implemented, the ATV could become an important part of the logistical chain for moon voyages or even further into the void.
AG, eyewitness to 1 Saturn V and 1 Saturn 1B launch!