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Space Seed could have been a two-parter

Shat Happens

Shat Happens

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Space Seed is great, but after Marla frees Kirk it rushes to the end.

Khan inexplicably seems intent on blowing the Enterprise up with everyone on board including himself and his people (not as a bluff to regain control), then Kirk beats him, the superman, up with a club. Very unsatisfactory.

I imagine it as a two-parter, cliffhanging with Kirk in the vacuum tube. The retaking of the Enterprise could be an entire episode.

McCoy spent a good scene telling us how Khan and gang were strong, so they shouldn't be knocked out by a human.
 
I could go for a two-parter that allowed for more of a slow burn and maybe made things between Khan and Marla a bit more mutual than they ultimately come off as in the episode.
 
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Good news! There is a second part. (Sorry, I had to. :hugegrin: )

More seriously, in a world with no means of recording shows, two-parters were probably something to be avoided when possible. The Menagerie presumably got a pass because it was a clever and cheap way to recycle all that footage.
 
Mr. Patient said:
More seriously, in a world with no means of recording shows, two-parters were probably something to be avoided when possible. The Menagerie presumably got a pass because it was a clever and cheap way to recycle all that footage.
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Robert Justman wrote to the effect that two-parters were not practical in TOS because they lacked control over what order the episodes would air. Remember "Corbomite" was stuck in fx hell and didn't run until the tenth week.

He was denying the claim that "The Naked Time" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday" were planned as a two-parter.
 
Shat Happens said:
Space Seed is great, but after Marla frees Kirk it rushes to the end.

Khan inexplicably seems intent on blowing the Enterprise up with everyone on board including himself and his people (not as a bluff to regain control), then Kirk beats him, the superman, up with a club. Very unsatisfactory.

I imagine it as a two-parter, cliffhanging with Kirk in the vacuum tube. The retaking of the Enterprise could be an entire episode.
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Just sounds padded to me. IMO the episode works fine as is.

The only episode where I recall where I wanted to see more was in "Mirror, Mirror." I would've loved to see the evil crew on the regular Enterprise pretending to be their good counterparts and wreaking havoc. But ultimately the episode wasn't about that, so it's best they just dispensed with them quickly by having Spock realize the switch had occurred.
 
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I still can't imagine the MU Kirk, etc. getting very far before Spock and/or others found them out. It would be different if they'd materialized inside a Jeffries Tube or such, but they showed up where their counterparts were expected to show up and the second Kirk mouthed off at Spock for not wanting to vaporize the Halkans, if not sooner, that would be the end of the charade.
 
Foxhot said:
You suggest an excellent topic for a fan film here. I second your motion.
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Heh. Yeah, that might be fun. Is that 15 minute time limit for fan films still in place?
DonIago said:
I still can't imagine the MU Kirk, etc. getting very far before Spock and/or others found them out.
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Well, that's pretty much what "Mirror, Mirror" shows us. Spock has already imprisoned the MU counterparts of the crew before Kirk & company totally reason out where they are, so obviously Mirror Kirk did SOMETHING really wrong, like ordering the ship's phasers to lock onto the Halkans' planet.
 
Shat Happens said:
Space Seed is great, but after Marla frees Kirk it rushes to the end.

Khan inexplicably seems intent on blowing the Enterprise up with everyone on board including himself and his people (not as a bluff to regain control), then Kirk beats him, the superman, up with a club. Very unsatisfactory.

I imagine it as a two-parter, cliffhanging with Kirk in the vacuum tube. The retaking of the Enterprise could be an entire episode.

McCoy spent a good scene telling us how Khan and gang were strong, so they shouldn't be knocked out by a human.
Click to expand...

It does seem abrupt how Khan suddenly wants to destroy the Enterprise and how Kirk defeats him with a club. Expanding it into a two-parter could have allowed for a more satisfying resolution and further exploration of the story.
Having a cliffhanger with Kirk trapped in the vacuum tube could indeed create suspense and anticipation for the second part. Devoting an entire episode to the retaking of the Enterprise would provide an opportunity to delve deeper into the strategic and tactical challenges faced by the crew.
McCoy's scene and emphasizing the strength of Khan and his group would have added more credibility to the subsequent confrontation. It would make the conflict more intense and showcase the exceptional abilities of Khan and his followers.
Your vision of "Space Seed" as a two-parter with a more comprehensive storyline and character development sounds intriguing. It would have allowed for a more nuanced exploration of the themes and provided a more satisfying conclusion to the episode.
 
I think there are several stories that would have benefitted from being a two-parter and this is one of them.
 
Mr. Patient said:
More seriously, in a world with no means of recording shows, two-parters were probably something to be avoided when possible. The Menagerie presumably got a pass because it was a clever and cheap way to recycle all that footage.
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Eh, two part episodes weren't particularly rare in the 50's and 60's. Lots of shows had them, even anthologies like The Outer Limits. Zorro had story arcs. Lost in Space had the first 5 episodes and a two parter after. Batman's first two seasons were nothing but two and three part episodes. The Fugitive, The Invaders, Mannix. Gunsmoke, Have Gun Will Travel, even I Dream of Jeannie had a few. And so on and so forth.

ZapBrannigan said:
Robert Justman wrote to the effect that two-parters were not practical in TOS because they lacked control over what order the episodes would air. Remember "Corbomite" was stuck in fx hell and didn't run until the tenth week.

He was denying the claim that "The Naked Time" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday" were planned as a two-parter.
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I don't know what he was smoking but if you write and film a two part episode, the network isn't going to throw the episodes around the schedule randomly. Vaguely interconnected stories? Sure. 12 O'Clock High suffered from that in its second year. But no network would take "Space Seed Part 1 and 2" and air it in any other order than story order. They wouldn't have shoved "The Devil in the Dark" between them. I've seen syndicated reruns get screwed up that way, but first run networks? He was just sucking wind here.

They didn't make it a 2 parter because they probably didn't think it needed to be one. If anything "City on the Edge of Forever" should have been. That episode suffers from brevity and budget.
 
I totally understand Khan seducing Marla and using her as a tool to gain control of Enterprise. What I don't understand is any attraction to her other than that, when he has any number of female augments with superior strength, intelligence, constitution, and presumably beauty to choose from. Why wouldn't he want his own children to be full Augments? Why would the ultimate Alpha-dog choose the weakest link to be the mother of his children? The answer is that he wouldn't, so in that vein his whole character makes no sense.
 
Honestly, I find Space Seed to be a mediocre episode with the benefit of great casting as Khan. Replace Montalban with a less charismatic actor and this episode would fall down the list of favorites, I think.
 
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Jedi Marso said:
I totally understand Khan seducing Marla and using her as a tool to gain control of Enterprise. What I don't understand is any attraction to her other than that, when he has any number of female augments with superior strength, intelligence, constitution, and presumably beauty to choose from. Why wouldn't he want his own children to be full Augments? Why would the ultimate Alpha-dog choose the weakest link to be the mother of his children? The answer is that he wouldn't, so in that vein his whole character makes no sense.
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For all of Khan's superpowers, he's still a descendant of Adam and Eve. That is to say, he's still Human. Even augments can be (supposedly) illogical.
 
Jedi Marso said:
I totally understand Khan seducing Marla and using her as a tool to gain control of Enterprise. What I don't understand is any attraction to her other than that, when he has any number of female augments with superior strength, intelligence, constitution, and presumably beauty to choose from. Why wouldn't he want his own children to be full Augments? Why would the ultimate Alpha-dog choose the weakest link to be the mother of his children? The answer is that he wouldn't, so in that vein his whole character makes no sense.
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Isn't this exactly the argument the Augments and their strongest supporters would use to justify wiping out the non-Augments entirely, even if gradually? Why would anyone want to associate with non-Augments when Augments are an option?
 
Laura Cynthia Chambers said:
For all of Khan's superpowers, he's still a descendant of Adam and Eve. That is to say, he's still Human. Even augments can be (supposedly) illogical.
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Yeah. You have to grant that it contradicts his eugenics ideology, but falling in love outranks that as a storytelling move.

In universe, Khan would know that with only 72 surviving followers, his colony would have barely enough genetic diversity to thrive long term (i.e., to prevent inbreeding among descendants). Every additional healthy young person is gold in that situation, and that goes double for females, who make the far scarcer contribution to reproduction.
 
While I can't say whether it crossed the minds of the writing staff, I like the irony that Khan, the most Augmenty of Augments, develops feelings for a non-Augment. Granted whether he has such feelings may be dubious within the episode itself, but that's why I'm happy TWoK and the novelverse expanded upon it.
 
DonIago said:
Isn't this exactly the argument the Augments and their strongest supporters would use to justify wiping out the non-Augments entirely, even if gradually? Why would anyone want to associate with non-Augments when Augments are an option?
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I think Khan's whole motif was that non-Augments were sheep and slaves for his people to rule, not necessarily wipe out.
 
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